Summer Flounder - 3 at 18" 105 day season? - Page 7
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Thread: Summer Flounder - 3 at 18" 105 day season?

  1. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by hook_me_up View Post
    I've been silent for a long time about this but what you gonna do about the FACT that NJ rec fishermen were 17% over quota. AND you want to fish MORE?

    CALL IT 'BAD DATA'?

    WRONG.

    You are completely wrong about this. AND your approach isn't working because it does not make sense.

    Continuing to take out fluke at the current rate equals stock depletion and fewer and fewer fish for the future until they are depleted to point that nobody can fish for them. A tighter belt now means there will be a future. This means no moratorium like happened with stripers. It sucks but it is TRUE.
    Who are you talking to, And apparently so mad at ??
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  3. #92
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    Not mad. Rant against those who say something is bad data when it doesn't serve their interest.

    The coms, party boats, and will lose more if and when the fluke are gone and it's gonna happen faster at a limit of 5 compared to 3.

    Why not entertain the idea that a little restraint now will lead to a better body of fish in the coming years. It worked for stripers, redfish and a whole lot of other managed fish populations.

    I get it. Nobody wants a shorter season with a smaller limit. But how often are south Jersey fishermen getting limits? Other than the hooker and some six packs I don't see a lot of limits coming out of south Jersey party boats. Manasquan and north yes. Maybe the changes will help the fluke population recover in a year or two and we'll be back to 5 before long.

  4. #93
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    Told ya

    jerseyblows.com

    At least now you can MAYBE say you caught a limit, 3 fish is about the NJ average anyway. 2 guys run 20 miles to structure to catch MAYBE 6 fish, lol. Are you sure the Russians and north korea don't have a hand in this. Smelling communism, oh that's right, its jersey.

    Seek greener pastures, spend your hard earned money elsewhere, only fish left are the mercury and pcb laden stripers and blues, and drum. Quick run to MD or VA will put you on better fishing.
    hook_me_up likes this.

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  6. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by hook_me_up View Post
    Not mad. Rant against those who say something is bad data when it doesn't serve their interest.

    The coms, party boats, and will lose more if and when the fluke are gone and it's gonna happen faster at a limit of 5 compared to 3.

    Why not entertain the idea that a little restraint now will lead to a better body of fish in the coming years. It worked for stripers, redfish and a whole lot of other managed fish populations.

    I get it. Nobody wants a shorter season with a smaller limit. But how often are south Jersey fishermen getting limits? Other than the hooker and some six packs I don't see a lot of limits coming out of south Jersey party boats. Manasquan and north yes. Maybe the changes will help the fluke population recover in a year or two and we'll be back to 5 before long.
    If what you say is true where are the stripers and weakies now like in 2006-209. Can't kill all the does and have deer. Can't kill all the breeders and have fish. simple as that. We had a slot striper once and I think it really helped the population. but according to the talking heads with there junk science N J was out of compliance.
    shbackbay and Tom B like this.
    keep their head high

  7. #95
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    It ain't junk science.

    Just cuz someone labels it as such such because it is inconvenient for their POV doesn't make it junk or wrong. I'd say it's not completely understood.

    Have weakies recovered from their near wipeout? Is the restriction on weakies helping repopulate them? The simple answer is any fishing is damaging the fish populations, period.

    New York and New Jersey harvest the most summer flounder. About 60-70% is by recreational fishermen. This is likely an underestimate. That might be bad data but it isn't junk science. It's an estimate.

    Anyhow go ahead and fish the fluke to extinction. Don't cry about it when you don't have anything to catch in the summer except skates and sea robins.

  8. #96
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    As far as stripers goes, it isn't just the striper fisherman. There is a massive company that vacuums up the striper's favorite food (menhaden/bunker) to make fish oil pills. This company makes a huge profit and some of it is used to control policy regarding their menhaden harvest. They could care less about the impact on stripers.

    Why isnt their outrage about this? Nobody cares about the lowly bunker.

    With the food chain broken there will be less stripers along the entire northeast corridor.

    So to answer your question, it isn't just the food fish harvest that impacts the fishing stock. It's really complicated.
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  9. #97
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    Want to know what the real junk science is? How about this. Commercial Fishing over breeding stock of Summer Flounder during the Spawn which occurs from Nov. - Mar. is the real culprit. That fisheries managers let this occur at all and then justify it with BS data is the real problem. If you don't let the breeders do their thing then you have poor recruitment, plain and simple. When I was a child, I'm 66 now, you couldn't buy Summer Flounder in the grocery stores during the winter, because they weren't around. Now we have the technology to hammer the stocks year round, and we do. If all we care about is profits then no amount of conservation during the recreational season is going to stop decimating the fish before they can recruit. We need to protect all fish from overfishing and especially when they spawn. The Recreational's have been bearing the burden for way too long. I have been fishing from boat and beach since I could hold a rod and have never seen such horrible fishing results in my life. We overfish the quota, BS. The science sucks and the rules are tilted against the recreational fishermen.
    shbackbay and Rockhunter like this.

  10. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carolynrose View Post
    Want to know what the real junk science is? How about this. Commercial Fishing over breeding stock of Summer Flounder during the Spawn which occurs from Nov. - Mar. is the real culprit. That fisheries managers let this occur at all and then justify it with BS data is the real problem. If you don't let the breeders do their thing then you have poor recruitment, plain and simple. When I was a child, I'm 66 now, you couldn't buy Summer Flounder in the grocery stores during the winter, because they weren't around. Now we have the technology to hammer the stocks year round, and we do. If all we care about is profits then no amount of conservation during the recreational season is going to stop decimating the fish before they can recruit. We need to protect all fish from overfishing and especially when they spawn. The Recreational's have been bearing the burden for way too long. I have been fishing from boat and beach since I could hold a rod and have never seen such horrible fishing results in my life. We overfish the quota, BS. The science sucks and the rules are tilted against the recreational fishermen.
    This seems logical and it may be a factor among many factors. Recruitment of new yearling numbers are influenced by a multitude of variables and spawning stock biomass is only one. There is still a lot that isn't know about the natural factors influencing fluke biomass that are not well understood. Who knows what other factors have changed in the 60 years you have been fishing.

    60 years ago junk science was used by as companies to sell 'healthy' cigarettes to Americans. Remember? I do. Leaded gas was poisoning the air and lead paint was damaging young persons brains. The good science has clearly shown how science can improve people's lives.

    I think we all agree on protecting the biomass. The debate is how to best do it.

    The Atlantic coast spawn for fluke occurs in October and November. Not sure if the commercial guys can fish then. Will have to check but I'd be surprised if that hasn't been thought of.

  11. #99
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    The information is readily available on the NJ State websites for commercial fishing regulations. Including seasons, limits, bycatch, trip numbers. But that is only the tip of the iceberg. Just think by allowing ANY fishing during the spawn each female that's caught or killed (thrownback) or bycatch is millions of potential fish lost from recruitment. There is a lot of culling going on due to the value of larger fish although the numbers and poundage remain the same.

  12. #100
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    For 2016, May 1-October 31 100 pounds per vessel per day. I wonder if that even comes close to paying for the gas.

  13. #101
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    That 100 pounds & 200 pounds winter is bycatch of non-permit commercial fishing boats. Look up the quotas for summer flounder commercial permit holders for 2016.

  14. #102
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    Not only do summer flounder permit holders get to decimate the spawning stocks but the bycatch goes up significantly for the spawning season.

  15. #103
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    Yea you're right. I didn't read that right. It looks like the quotas are sent in letters and not spelled out specifically in the commercial regs.

    http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2016/comregs16.pdf

    Here's the letter. http://www.state.nj.us/dep/fgw/pdf/2..._quota2017.pdf

    You are right. They are harvesting during the spawn. In fact the maximal harvest is during the spawn. That's unlikely to be good for a depleted stock
    Last edited by hook_me_up; 05-19-2017 at 11:12 PM.

  16. #104
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    First let me say those saying the recreational recs should be more strict are probably less than good fishermen. I have had no problem catching AND RELEASING WITH A TAG the past several years. Certainly not as good as pre 2015 but still decent.. Pre -2015 was before regionalization and the love in with NY where NY got a 1" size reduction even though they had over-fished their allotment 3 straight years and NJ got 1/2" INCREASE even though NJ Marine Council was doing an excellent job of controlling the catch and keeping fishermen happy.
    As far as Commercial catch is concerned, I could support a ban on some winter fishing for fluke as when Commercial boys found them on Continental shelf in late 70's without control they almost wiped the population out .Controls went in in 1984. Commercial Guys are controlled much tighter than recreational.Once their quota is met the session is SHUTDOWN until next session opens up reducing the ability to seriously affect the population.. REAL PROBLEM is recreational side taking prime females,males die off at 17" and rarely will you find a male over 18" So regulators keep raising the size and stock kept dropping.
    Doesn't take a brain surgery to figure out if you are removing only females the stock will go down. Commercial guys get a 14" size in an effort TO REDUCE DEAD FISH GOING BACK.
    I wish they could keep everything and once Qtrly poundage met get shut down as even with the increase net mess size they are probably still getting numerous fish shorter than 14". KEY to commercial side is control which doesn't exist in recreational. How would the recreational industry feel if there was a shutdown mid season like can happen on commercial side.
    The real problem on the recreational side is a regulation with a too high of a size limit thereby killing a higher percentage of females
    You can sit back and blame the commercial guys all you want but you are missing the obvious which is the recreational regulations are seriously affecting population. When the recreational side is throwing more back than keeping and with a mortality rate on throwbacks running as high as 25% I would say there is a problem
    The only answer as other States like Florida have figured out is SLOT SIZES...If there was a slot of 2 fish between 15-18" and 2 over 18" or something similar I would predict a significant return of fluke population
    Now ,I do not have an oar in the water as I rarely keep any of the 4-600 fluke I catch every year but I am involved and study the problem BECAUSE I want my grand kids to enjoy fishing like I have for past 65 years.
    Have a Great A Season
    BUCKTAIL WILLIE<br /> fishologist and master tagger A FISH IS TOO VALUABLE TO CATCH JUST ONCE MEMBER RFA,,ALS,NAFC, IGFA,,Stripers Forever ,SFEC ,Tri-State Ang. recipent of Sagamore of the Wabash (IN)
    a skillful angler must be full of humble thoughts NEW MEMBER of Ancient Mariners
    .

  17. #105
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    Bucktail, I understand and agree with most of what your saying. Here is the exception. Why is it necessary to have a commercial season on spawning fish? I think even you could agree we would increase stocks greatly without it. Most fisheries have closed seasons during the species spawn. The only reason size limits are so high is to curb the fishing on recreational fishing in order for commercials to continue the winter commercial seasons. Also I don't believe commercials are saints. There is a lot of proof they cull their catch in order to bring in the more valuable larger fish. Only enhancing the damage of killing spawning fish. No species as valuable as summer flounder should be targeted until after the spawn, it's only common sense. By the way, I too also practice catch and release.
    Tom B likes this.

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