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3 mile line The EEZ

22K views 84 replies 34 participants last post by  Re-Bait 
#1 ·
Had some difficulty distinguishing the 3 mile line on my chartplotter last Friday as there are 2 or 3 carteographic lines on display off the shore line. I used my cursor and poineed myself 2.19 miles from the shoreline and didn't want to go "out of bounds" my question is and I feel that it's a good question before I do make a phone call- the 3 mile line, is that 3 miles from the shore line OR is it 3 NAUTICAL miles from the shoreline 3.452 miles?- because one of the carteographic lines was a little over 3 miles from the shoreline and if the EEZ is in nautical miles, then my chartplotter would make sense. I'm not one to test the waters or push the envelope, I abide by the rules and just want to make sure I'm on the same page as those enforcing the line especially if I do go towards it to seek deeper water but more than likely- I'll stick with 2.25-2.50 miles to be on the safe side like last Friday. If anyone could shed some light on this, I appreciate it and thankyou in advance. By the way, my chartplotter is a Lowrance LMS I GPS 527, it's about 8 years old so I would assume the EEZ is marked out on there. I'll try to get a screen shot and maybe someone could tell me it one of the 2-3 lines/dotted lines displayed on there is the EEZ.
 
#33 · (Edited)
Over the 3 mile limit, in the act of "fishing" or observed in the act of fishing, even if no fish on board, with known stripe bass schools in the area, probable cause is proven. Boarding can be done anytime. Upon inspection of boat, with no fish aboard, I would hope authorities would let you go. But if you are observed catching 3 or 4 stripe bass in a row, in this scenario, you are illegally catching stripe bass. "I was bluefishing" is not a defense. With legal sized stripe bass on board & over the 3-mile line at any time (even if you can back over to the inside & were observed "over the line'), you broke the law. Break out the wallet.

I was told by CO James, tog fishing on a wreck, over 3 mile limit, with anchor down, should pass muster - but you better be tog fishing. You can & most probably will be boarded at any time. Incidental catch of stripe bass should be released IMMEDIATELY while still in the water, should it happen. But if you are observed catching 3 or 4 stripe bass in a row, in this scenario, you are illegally catching stripe bass. If you catching bass after bass while fishing for tog, for your own legal goodwill, move to another spot.
 
#34 ·
The "observing" part in the scenario you mention certainly brings up a lot of concern. The CG and other LOE's don't seem to restrict fishing or recreational boating in close proximity to whales that feed along the shore line in tandem with the bunker and bass. Heck a guy two weeks was interviewed on TV that he saw a whale while he was fishing and it smacked into his boat a few minutes later. Should they have given him a ticket for not leaving the area once he identified the presence of the whale.
 
#35 ·
I have to question that, if you were fishing for yellow fin tuna and caught three bluefin you would have to stop fishing. If you were fishing for cod and caught sea bass illegally you have to stop. I think it's a possession issue, if you in possession outside the three mile or observed under power coming in from beyond the three mile and are in possession.
 
#38 ·
I think they're working off of "intent." If we're in a canyon, we're fishing for YFT, 3 per man. We're certainly not looking to illegally do C&R all day on BFT. Even if we run into a school of BFT, it really is not our intended target.

If we're only 30 miles off, hauling in BFT, and try to claim we're looking for YFT, then no one is going to buy that as reasonable, even if we're dopey enough to be trying it for real.

If you're over the line, unless you've got Blues and nothing but Blues in the cooler, they're not going to buy that you're fishing for Blues. You can tell it to the judge, and we all know how that goes.
 
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#39 ·
Not trying to be argumentative and I would like a definitive answer from a Conservation Officer, because I don't know what the law is regarding this situation. Inferring someone's intent is a really gray area, when someone says it was his intent to whatever means it was his interpretation of your actions. Pretty shakey ground look how often peoples intent is misjudged on the Barn.
 
#40 ·
Stay within 3 miles when striper fishing and you will never have anything to worry about plain and simple. Over 30 years of striper fishing up and down the coast and never been boarded ever. Every fishfinder I have ever used in the last 20 years has the 3 mile line marked. The bite today was so good there is no reason to risk going over the line.
 
#41 ·
Here's a funny one. Last February a bunch of buddies and I were talking. Heard every story from CG following boats to the dock after pinging boats to this to that.

I called the coast guard for fun and to learn for the heck of it.... and to dispel myths of how they operate. Lots of bogus stuff gets rumored out there I think, but I'd like to know for my own knowledge. They just kept extending my calls all over the place. They had no idea how to answer my questions. It was embarressing actually. The Coast Guard have always been the most polite guys on the water. Super friendly love seeing them out there. Usually young men and women. But as for getting answers on the phone, not that day or at those main hubs.
 
#81 · (Edited)
You called the wrong people. Nj fish and game law enforcement is 609-748-2050 When I was warden we worked all the time with coast guard because they had the boats. But many of those guys are from Kansas, Ohio etc. They dont know a tog from a flounder. They just transport NJ F&G and lock in GPS positions in case needed in court.
 
#43 · (Edited)
How is New Jersey’s 3-Mile Limit in the ocean measured? After seeing the question asked in various ways in this BassBarn thread, I spent almost two hours trying to find a clear, succinct, plain English definition as to how New Jersey’s 3-Mile Limit is determined.

The short answer is that there is NO clear, succinct, plain English definition as to how New Jersey’s Three-Mile Limit is determined. Should a member of a police or Coast Guard crew try to cite you for a breach of the three-mile limit, I suggest that you politely ask them to show you the legal citation that determines the measurement of the Three-Mile Limit for the State of New Jersey. Even if their patrol boat is filled with law books, they will be unable to produce a relevant citation.

Further, different states have different rules and distances. But no one maintains that the three-mile limit for the territorial sea exists by force of a general international convention. One must look, then, for its roots and growth in custom. The Three-Mile Limit exists, if at all, because "the usage and practice" of nations has accepted and maintained it.

A chart showing what states claim what areas may be found at http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/csdl/mbound.htm.

A legal discussion of the Three-Mile Limit was published in 1972 by the Valparaiso University Law Review found at http://scholar.valpo.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1776&context=vulr. This document lists various ways to determine what the limit should be including the “Cannon Shot Rule” that was developed by the Mediterranean countries and Holland. Using the "Cannon Shot Rule," a cannon mounted on land would fire a shot into the sea. Where the shot landed was the far edge of the submerged land claimed by the firing country. Now if New Jersey would adopt the "Cannon Shot Rule," we could all mount cannons and rip one off as we got to our fishing area along the beaches.

Frankly, after reading much of the material presented on the web, I find it hard to believe that any government would have a prayer in convicting a fisherman who might be as much as a mile over what many consider the “Line.” I am not an attorney, thank goodness, but this certainly seems to be a totally unsettled subject in law. Not so the Twelve-Mile Limit.

The analysis presented in the Valparaiso Law Review states the following conclusion:

“Upon review of all the evidence, it would appear that the United States must abandon its defense of the sanctity of the three-mile limit and accept the twelve-mile limit as her own. It is patently clear the breadth of the territorial sea is, on the basis of state practice, gradually widening.

Moreover, the twelve-mile limit tends to attract adherents faster than other proposals. It is therefore not likely that any international tribunal will hold that such a claim is illegal per se in international law.

Thus we have reached a stage where the Three-Mile Limit has become obsolete, has been abandoned by state practice and has not retained the general consent which gave rise to its resolution as customary law.

In discounting the trend evident in national claims, the United States assumes the risk that each state will unilaterally determine the breadth of its territorial sea. The consequence can only be a complete disintegration of the law of the sea.”
 
#47 ·
Frankly, after reading much of the material presented on the web, I find it hard to believe that any government would have a prayer in convicting a fisherman who might be as much as a mile over what many consider the “Line.” I am not an attorney, thank goodness, but this certainly seems to be a totally unsettled subject in law. Not so the Twelve-Mile Limit.

I think that the officers are of the same mind. That is why they probably do give a wide berth before actually charging anyone with fishing outside the EEZ. Although, with the incredibly accurate navigational devices that virtually every boat today is equipped with they shouldn't have to give too much leeway...
 
#44 ·
what i did years ago,on high tide go as close to the beach as safe and put down way points my plotter,at the surf line,then use the range feature to find 3nm line.you should learn the longitude to the thousandth of a minute at the EEZ LINE, note coast runs SWtoNE the line is constantly changing. i have never been checked in 19 yrs use barney inlet. coast guard has put out warning posters about striper fishing in the EEZ, saw one in merc dealer in bayville. hope this helps you.
 
#45 ·
So we were coming in GE inlet this afternoon and There was a state police boat just sitting there by the OC bridge. Apparently he's the watch dog calling his buddy on land in the truck about boats coming in from the ocean. As soon as we tied up and got cleaned up the GW rolled up in the truck saying they have spotters out in the fleets watching for people outside the EEZ and a lot of illegal fish have been coming through our inlet. I told him that's good but we weren't out that far and probably why we didn't have any fish. Hehe
He asked if we had any luck? I said yes we did, all bad. He laughed and asked if he could check the cooler in my truck. I said have at it. He did, said have a nice day and left
 
#52 ·
So he'd be checking size limits and all that, the gentleman at your dock? If your cooler had bass in it, he couldn't determine where you caught them while at the dock. He couldn't give you a citation for being over the line.... If I'm inaccurate, please elaborate.
 
#51 ·
Ha! He's retired over a year ago but that number should still be good for the Marine Enforcement Office. I wouldn't expect them to say something like "how far over the line can you go before you get a ticket". Of course that would be illegal for any officer to suggest.
 
#50 · (Edited)
For Navionics+ mapping software/cartopgraphy only:
Per Eric Fraser, Navionics Technical Support Team, the magenta dash/dot line is the delineatated 3-mile limit on Navionics+. Just for kicks, the solid magenta line is the shipping lane boundary line (someone in a previous post above mentioned the solid magenta line as the 3-mile limit).

The black line is delineated line from NOAA chart after being download/raster scan into mapping cartography of Navionics format (reason why ist's not exact)

The orange line is another base layer being superimposed into the mapping (its actually a regional line for all of Cape May County as it relates to NJ Fisheries Council Mgt Area line from NMFS mapping. Why is it there if it has no relation to navigation????)

For Garmin Bluewater mapping users - who knows....

So the legal question stands - which line is it? And for Law Enforcing Agency, what mapping are they using?

I'm really starting to like Raymarine's Lighthouse Charts rather than Navionics & Lowrance Insight mapping. The Lowrance & Navioinics has so much inaccuracy built into them. The Lighthouse Charts are straight vector scan downloads of the actual NOAA charts. Raymarine's products are about 20% more expensive that Garmin/Lowrance....:rolleyes::please:
 
#55 ·
So Sunday while trolling off of SIC and Strathmere, We saw was a big fleet east of us trolling the sea isle lumps. All past the 3 mile line. Around noon a CG 47 slowly pulled up about 4.5 out. All the boats on the lump knew they were outside and slowly made their way in. The CG stayed there at least another 2-3 hours. Did see any of the guys that came in get boarded.
Also saw guys ( on radar) 8-10 out trolling most of the day...
 
#62 ·
I tried that Navionics app this past Sunday and it took the guess work out. I used the purple and red pegs, one peg on the shoreline and one peg just under the 3 mile mark and activated the GPS tracking and we stayed within the line. The app is easy to use as you can peg out the line while on your chartplotter if the line isn't marked out too well or the line disappears in some areas, it can be a P.I.A. while trolling and messing around with your cursor on your chartplotter. I want to thank you guys for suggesting the Navionics app.
 
#64 ·
I'm sure a lot of it is which CO actually stops you and if he knows has any hard evidence, like an undercover boat or a picture.

The three mile line is well marked on your charts and I am sure that if you went to fight a ticket for being just over, what your base chart reads and how far you were past the line you were aware of would come into play.

50' over the line? That's a tough one. My charts are a decade old on my Navnet and I can say with pretty good certainty that at any given point, with erosion and storms, that actual 3 miles down to 50' is a guess-tamate at best. But if that is what my charts displayed and I was over it, then I would have no argument since I intended to go over it or ignored it.

I catch myself all the time when trolling that I have drifted out past the edge of the EEZ and readjust course in. Hard to argue that at the 5FB I guess.

I'm in favor of the line and the boat checks by the way... wish the regulations themselves did a better job of protecting the fish up and down the entire coast.

I saw a guy written up for 37 herring back when we could dipnet 36 of them (I know it was a miscount on his part....who poaches 1 herring, but over is over), but had one another CO make sure he was handling them super carefully when I was counted so they did not die. ... luck of the draw sometimes.
 
#66 · (Edited)
As to Navionics accuracy:

Traditional printing of NOAA paper nautical charts was discontinued April 13, 2014. NOAA will continue to create and maintain other forms ofnautical charts, including the increasingly popular Print on Demand (POD) charts, updated paper charts available from NOAA-certified printers.NOAA electronic navigational charts (NOAA ENC®) and raster navigational charts (NOAA RNC®), used in a variety of electronic chartingsystems, are also updated weekly and are available for free download from the Coast Survey website. For more information, please visitNOAA's Office of Coast Survey's homepage at http://www.nauticalcharts.noaa.gov/. The POD charts produced by NOAA's POD partners are,and will continue to be considered published by NOAA, and will meet all mandatory carriage requirements as specified by navigation safetyregulations: 33 CFR 164.01 and 33CFR 164.33.

How come the charts are so inaccurate???:nuts::huh:
 
#72 ·
not trying to argue, been boarded also, but safety check is legal, flares life vests etc, but a search is only justified when suspected of violation, over the eez or spotted steady putting fish over the side etc, I respect them all for what they do, I was in brigantine when they showed up and all them boats were well over the line and I'm glad they did, I don't hide anything and I allow them to do whatever they want because I know I'm legal, I don't keep anything I'm not supposed to and I never had a problem with them, just saying it sounds quite unreasonableto be subject to search just for mere presence
 
#73 ·
Here, I googled that for you.....



Section 89 Title 14 of the United States code basically says that the USCG can board any US vessel in any waters and any vessel in US waters "to make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures and arrests". No warrant or probable cause needed.
I've been in law enforcement for 20+ years and yes twentynine I am held (and hold myself) to a higher standard than any career I've seen. Yes, state and local officers are cross designated as federal officers and the boarding rights of those officers, especially Customs and Coast Guard are vast and far reaching. They are such for good reason. These are the people that are relied on to protect our nation from a variety of threats from drugs to terrorists. Those who feel thier civil liberties are trampled by the boardings are also the first ones to look for aid from these LEOs. I wonder how most of you would react to "good citzens" cursing at you, spitting at you and of course threatening to sue you and have your job, for 10-12-14 hours a day 7 days a week in all weather conditions.

I think a little clarification of terminology is in order. Seems like a petty semantical issue, but in the legal world definitions are critical. When an enforcement officer boards your boat to check your safety gear he is not "searching" your boat in a legal sense. He is conducting an administrative inspection. Boaters have no more constitutional protections from a boarding/administrative inspection than a trucker has from roadside safety inspections or Delta Airlines has from an intensive technical inspection. In heavily regulated or potentially dangerous activities the powers that be decided long ago that an administrative inspection was not in violation of one's constitutional protections.

A "search" is a quest for evidence by someone acting in a governmental capacity into an area where one has a reasonable expectation of privacy. A conservation officer checking all the holds and storage areas on a boat for illegal fish does not constitute a search. It is an administrative inspection. I feel safe in assuming most of us are fishermen. How will we protect our fisheries if not for the inspections conducted by conservation officers. I know of a conservation officer who found over 220 illegal red snapper when he began accounting for the space along the centerline of a boat below decks. The operator had a hidden compartment beneath his console. As far as the frequency of the boarding goes here is my take on that. If I am boarded today and guaranteed not to be "hassled" again for a given period of time, then tomorrow I can get drunk and poach all the fish I want to. Get the picture?
 
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