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Should catch and release be illegal beyond 3 mile line?

7K views 40 replies 24 participants last post by  boom 
#1 ·
Lots of discussion on the 3 mile line topic today. Why not make catch and release allowed beyond the 3 mile line?
 
#2 ·
I'm asking because i don't actually know, but is it legal? I personally don't think it should be due to the number of fish that would die anyway from the fight or being gut hooked, along with the fact that it would make it easier to illegally fish for them past the 3 mile line.
 
#6 ·
Just imagine how many fish get the MOJO down their gut with the asinine size limits and no keep slot fish. How many fish in the 38-44" range get throwed back because you can't keep that size in Delaware and Maryland ? How many fish from 28-44" get throwed back in NJ after you catch your 1st one trying to get a second legal one ? Yep a good many of them are gut hooked too and die also because of dumb *** size limits that are designed to preserve the species that in fact probably have the opposite effect and kill more fish...and this occurs inside the 3 mile limit... legally
 
#7 · (Edited)
When you fish to release fish you change your tactics. If you fish the same hooks, the same lures, and the same handling techniques you would use in a harvest fishery, in a catch and release fishery you are going to have a very high mortality issues.

Some Suggestions:

1. All of our bunker spoons have Quick Rigs swivel circle hooks. Anyone that has fished with us will tell you that we do not loose fish from the hook. From idiot rodding handling of the B & C team crew sure. But not the hook set, perfect in the corner of the mouth every time.

2. Mojo's that have a head with a swinging hook from our experience lead to the hook either getting caught in the stomach OR the hook getting caught in the gill plate. And neither of those fish are going to survive. If you switch your mojos to the type that the head and the hook are molded as a solid piece we have not had this issue, not entirely sure but likely the rigidity does not let the lure get that deep and the hook get's set in the jaw.

3. Handling the release.....this is more of an issue in the spring and the summer. But you better be ready to get your arm in the water and swim that fish until its ready to go, this can be 20-30 mins especially as the water temps rise. But if you swim them on a bogga and you keep the dorsal fins vertical 95% of the fish are going to swim away. But guess what this takes time and you are going to catch less fish in a mad dog bite of big fish.

4. Snag and drop, this one is tough. I have asked some of the best captains I know that spend more time on the water than we do and there is no way to reduce the mortality rate of fish with those big *** trebles. Sure we can throw a net and switch to a bridle on a circle hook. But what those bass want is that erratic bunker bleeding and dropping to the bottom for an easy meal.

We are committed to catch and release. We make every effort to use tactics that allow a healthy release, and we take responsibility for killing fish in the process. As a captain, my goal is to release 100% of the fish that we catch. If a fish dies, that is my failure. I would love to see a big money (rock fish shoot out style) catch and release bass tournament. That requires a different skill set. Many people say to me well an idiot can troll all day and catch fish.....well, I tend to think that truly any idiot can toss a gigantic treble hook into a swarm of erratic baitfish and get bit even easier. There are measures that can be taken to release trolled fish, I have never found a way that is effective in reducing mortality rates with treble hooks.

And before this turns into a holy war, I am all for people being able to keep their legal limit. The legal limit is a complex scientific and economic question. As long as you are playing by the rules that are black and white, I have no issues. But once you are fishing 10 miles out of sea isle, blue fishing on B. Ridge with bunker spoons , or building a false floor into your 36 Yellow-ender-regu-grady-vee then its time to pay the piper when you get caught.


EDIT: Thanks for all the comments on mojos, when we fished 2 spoons on spoon rods we would also run 2 mojos. But over the years we have have fished less mojos as time has gone on. And now that we are no longer fishing wire, we keep 2 mojos on the boat but they are rarely used. The one place that we consistently run mojos is in the raritan bay in the very early spring. It might have been that bigger mojo with the swinging hook and the smaller that start the spring run in big numbers, maybe the size was the issue. When we found the rigid mojos we then started running them with RonZs which seem to be deadly in the bay.
 
#11 ·
Lots of good points made here already and I agree with many.

I will agree that I've never seen a mojo caught striper that was gut hooked or hooked in the gills, they seem to be in the lips or mouth almost all of the time. That can be said for most trolling lures, I see very little foul or gut hooked fish while trolling, I think they key there would just be to ensure a proper release and make sure the fish swims.

As far as snag and drop, Northern Ivy hit the nail on the head. While the weighted trebles do work the best alot of the time, its a complete crap shoot whether or not the fish gets gut hooked. Sometimes you get lucky and its only one hook in the lips, but alot of times the thing is in its gut all 3 hooks and its not coming out without surgery. I've had some so bad I just cut the line and retrieved my treble when I cleaned the fish, and even then it was a bear to get out. The circle hook deal works but it takes more skill to catch consistently on it. Takes more effort on the captain to place the boat in a position so the baits will be where they need to be in relation to the bunker school IMO, but if you snag the bunker, take off treble hook and clip on of its tail fins you now have a bleeding, wounded bait on a circle hook, and it will catch fish.

The regs do need to change. If nothing else that over fish needs to go away. Ideally I'd like to see 1 fish 24" -36" or something then the bonus tags be the same just be able to keep an additional fish the same size. Either way we as fishermen need to do more than ***** about the regs, we need to respect the fishery regardless. Again Northern Ivy hit the nail on the head, take the time to handle the fish properly and release the fish, if you got your limit in the box put the treble away an try the circle hook(think of it as a challenge, etc.)

That and watch the comm bunker harvest!! Ever since they cut the bunker quota the ocean has been full of life in the fall and it is an absolutely amazing thing. Call my a nature freak or tree hugger or whatever you want, but there have been times the past 2 years where I couldn't help but just sit and watch the ocean do her thing. The huge bunker schools, the whales, purpose, the fish...truely an amazing experience when that happens and you can bet the commercial fleet is doing everything they can to get that quota back and scoop them all up. We need to be wary of this as i believe I read they have already begun to increase the quotas since the cut.
 
#15 ·
That and watch the comm bunker harvest!! Ever since they cut the bunker quota the ocean has been full of life in the fall and it is an absolutely amazing thing.
This might be the most important point in the thread. John McMurray does a ton of work and writes about this on a very regular basis. It really is 3rd grade circle of life kind of stuff. He is certainly one of the good guys out there representing the interest of the fisheries and fishermen. He always present thoughtful commentary and he is certainly passionate about the conservation of forage fish.

http://conservefish.org/2016/12/12/regional-ocean-plans-finalized/
 
#12 ·
The majority of the fish hook themselves with trebles no need to free line when using a treble. This will reduce the gut hooking. I have caught many a fish leaving the rod with a snagged bunker in the rod holder with the drag tight and I release many fish in great condition with this method. I also re rig the bunker on large j hooks and haven't gut hooked a fish all year. These fish I do let run for quick 3-5 count then jimmy houston em up. I have had bass with mojos deep down the throat especially with the double hook style 9" shade. I don't troll much but the mojo hooks do leave some large holes in the fish compared to a treble. Be safe out there fellas, happy holidays merry Christmas.
 
#14 · (Edited)
[I have had bass with mojos deep down the throat especially with the double hook style 9" shade. I don't troll much but the mojo hooks do leave some large holes in the fish compared to a treble. [/QUOTE]

Agree 100%. Just had one with the Mojo way down it's throat last Thursday. And the large hooks do a number on the mouth occasionally, even if it is in the corner. Those wide open bucket mouths just cause such a drag that it tears things up around the jaw when trolling and cranking them in. Two weeks ago, trolling off AC with the fleet, I saw two stripers floating on their sides gasping for their last breath, that had been "released". I used to fish exclusively in the inlet, anchored up using bunker chunks and clam on circle hooks. Unfortunately that fishery has died off for various reasons, but the difference in the damage imposed by the large J hooks in a Mojo, (and the lack of damage with the circles) is significant. Do we all want to catch these wonderful fish for years to come? Then do your part and fish within the rules.
 
#17 ·
My vote is absolutely not. The average Joe has absolutely no clue how to properly handle a fish that is going to be released.

I love hearing that there are schools of fish 5-6 miles off "acres of em" and they are for the most part being left alone. Give some fish a chance!!! Plenty to be had within 3 miles. You have to be willing to run and gun....network....and be able to adapt. If you can't run your boat or car to where the fish are.....you probably should be working instead of fishing....sorry
 
#19 · (Edited)
I agree,we are definitely seeing a decline in the Striped Bass fishery,so we need to give the fish a chance to recover......However there might have been plenty of fish in Brigantine but in the WW/CM area this year fish were FEW and far between.Most guys down here will tell you they didn't catch anything this year .So it can be a little frustrating seeing those birds busting out beyond the EEZ.I fished about 10 times this year and only came away with 1 fish........and driving my car up north to fish on a party/charter boat after spending thousands of dollars on my boat each season isn't something I or other fishermen want to do.
 
#18 ·
Cobra you bring up a good point. What happened to the inlet fishery? I never used to leave the inlet in the fall between drifting eels and spot or throwing chunks and clam and eels into the whitewater. Also the artificial bite in the whitewater, what a fishery! Do the migratory fish no longer need to feed on the bars due to the bunker schools? I used to follow the LEI thread because those guys did the same fishing as the GE guys. I tried a couple times this fall but didn't catch except dogs. I heard one guy who is the best Mack attack got one on eel. Thoughts?
 
#20 ·
When there are less fish around there's going to be less or no fish in a lot of the places where fish were caught in previous years.Inlets,the CM rips,the Delaware bay are all dead zones now,places where we caught tons of fish in the past.Too much pressure put on these fish year after year.We need a recovery period for a while to allow the fishery to recover.
 
#25 ·
And we still had some Stripers in LEI right after Sandy as well, but what no one is talking about is the Spring fishery.

Great Bay had a great Bass fishery every Spring, through 2012.

Sandy hit, the Fall fishery was way way off in 2012, and we haven't had a Spring fishery since. I fish GB 20-25 days a month in April and May, and starting in 2013, I went from 2-6 keepers a day at Graveling Point to 2 keepers in 4 years.

When the fish don't go up the Mullica in the November to spend the Winter, they're not there to come out in mid-March when things start to warm up.

There's no way to know an exact number, but all those fish that typically hit LEI around Halloween and then go up into the Mullica, what % of them got hit with Sandy just a few days before when they were still in front of LBI and Seaside, and said "screw this, we're outta here?"

Wherever they went, life was good, and there was no need to come back. I'm speaking specifically about LEI, and the breeding class of fish that skipped the Mullica in 2012 because of Sandy.
 
#28 ·
Lucky John just my thoughts, I think all of the dredging for the beaches is also impacting the waters closer to the island and the inlets as well, remember the sand eel blooms, now none.
 
#34 ·
This definetly had an effect as well........no bait no fish. The seismic blasting two years ago put the kabosh on the midshore tuna as well. That blasting chased the bait away.
The last 2 spring time bites have been horrible. I think I had 5-7 keepers this spring with a few fidgets mixed in. They don't even show up in Grassy Channel anymore either. As far as cycles go I don't believe that applies here because I banged the heck out of them for over 12 years before Sandy struck. A week after Sandy I went out and we did decent with good sized fish then the fidgets appeared and the keepers were far and few between. I fished with Joey and we both noticed the decline
 
#30 ·
My theory is that it is a combination of a few things - less fish, warmer water temperatures, and too much bait. I fish mostly in the Raritan Bay/Sandy Hook area. Used to catch stripers as early as labor day. This year, water was too warm and no stripers around until the middle of October. When the stripers did show up they were mostly in the bay and not the ocean. Some days there was lots of bait and stripers on the surface, but the stripers wouldn't bite. Other days there was lots of bait but no stripers. A couple of days it was lights out fishing casting shads. It was a crazy fall season. The party boats in the area had one of their worst years for catching stripers. Hopefully next year will be better.
 
#31 ·
I was fishing GE right after sandy as well and had a great year anchoring up. Like others have said nothing since. Today was slow outside GE even with all the bait in the area. I think the answer is less pressure on the stock let's reduce the keepers to one per man no slot to protect the local back bay population. One fish 28-36" with a trophy tag for those that like to keep big fish. Just an opinion on making things better.
 
#36 ·
I have a different perspective than most of you here. But what I see is consistent with what you see. I can relate to the inlet whitewater bites that were. One of the few times I have fished in a boat was in Hereford Inlet years ago. They used to nose up to a sandbar and fire big poppers across the bar and crank it across the top through the whitewater as fast as you could reel. You could see the fish chasing your plug through the wash and bang! It was awesome fishing! They were nice fish.

What I do 99% of the time is fish on foot. From the beach all the way through a couple inlets to the back creeks. I fish artificials exclusively. What I see is the same reduction is the presence of fish in all locations. All locations... I don't necessarily speak of the migration that you guys are used to, or were dialing in on. Certainly that has been the case on the beach for me over the years, but a lot of the fish in the back have always been resident fish. We did always have some schools of larger fish that would come into the back for a few weeks or so during the migration. Then be gone. Lots of shorts and larger slot fish were always to be found somewhere at night, with occasional keeper fish. I don't fish anywhere near as much as I did in the past. Not because I'm not interested, but because the fish are not there. The fishing in the years following the moratorium was, in my opinion, unnaturally plentiful. When I was younger we didn't even fish for stripers. We caught weakfish. There were no stripers. Then it was pretty nuts for a period of time after the moratorium ended. We slammed them good. All of us. Now we are reaping what we have sewn. All of us. I think the regs have been counterproductive ever since the moratorium, but that's a thread all its own.

When fish spawn they do so with the numbers of eggs that they do for one reason. That is for them to be eaten while they are young. Not all but most. Not to be eaten when they have survived long enough to be they mass producers of the species. We should not be taking these fish out of the equation. A slot fish reg is the happy median. ONE slot fish. Like it or not, that's the way it should be. IMHO
 
#37 ·
The issue I have with slot fish for the areas I fish in the bay from April until November is the average size fish is between 22-28". If these fish are allowed to be harvested I would hate to see a reduction in this fun back bay fishery. Yes, these are the good eating fish, but more importantly to me is the ability to shoot out in my boat for a few hours of fishing and bang a couple of beautiful 4-10 lb bass on light tackle in my backyard. How about the game wardens busting the guys who fish all night under the bridges keeping shorts to sell in Phili instead of busting the guys with jobs who pay taxes and work hard for a nice boat to go out front in the fall, that's my issue. Discuss
 
#40 · (Edited)
I didn't really didn't see many, if any boats fishing in the inlet this year as I was fishing from land. Plenty heading in or out, but not fishing. However most of my fish this fall were from the inlet on the rocks. No two years are ever the same I think. I'm not as active as I once was, but I'm getting a little long in the tooth to keep getting skunked. Last "several" years have been down across the board. Did fairly well for a while this fall. Then nothing for weeks now.

I known one thing, I will be hunting fish in the spring next year. I'm busy in the spring and never really fished it. I know the past few years fishing from land has been better in the spring than the fall. Not first hand but I know there has been a better bite in the spring.
 
#41 ·
Enforcement of Targeting vs. Possession
The consensus of the LEC was that enforcing targeting prohibitions in the EEZ is
extremely difficult, and in fact not occurring to any degree.
Some states reported that
targeting does occur, but making cases in court is difficult where intent must be proven. Most
state regulations are written to address possession and take. Successful cases citing targeting
generally require a level of surveillance that is not feasible. Further, such cases would need to
demonstrate fishing behavior that is consistent with repetitive effort and techniques for catching
striped bass in the EEZ in order to be successfully prosecuted. Another complication ensues
when anglers may be legally targeting another species, e.g., bluefish off of New Jersey.
 
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