WIDE OPEN BASS/BLUE BITE

[IT'S 4 REEL]

LAST WEEKEND,DOWN AT THE FB'S,MILES OF BIRDS,LOTS OF BOATS AND LOTS OF FISH.FINAL TALLY,OVER 100 BASS AND BLUES CAUGHT AND RELEASED.NO BIG FISH,32 INCH LARGEST BASS,10 LB BLUE WAS BIGGEST BLUE.STILL A GREAT WEEKEND FISHING AND A TRUE WIDE OPEN BITE.ALL ON METAL.BACK OFF THE FLEET THAT IS CHASING THE BIRDS AND FISH THE MARKS ON THE MACHINE BEHIND FLEET.ALL LIGHT TACKLE.OUTSTANDING FISHING

[fisher224]

BY FB'S do you mean 5 Fathom Bank?

[TomKat]

I think so, plus the buoys down there are 2fb, 3fb, etc. therefore the fb's

[Outbound44]

Hope to do a repeat this weekend! Is that you cap?

O'brien..looks like you bumped gins out of a slip! haha

[Brucrew]

This here thread is gonna get slammed!! Catchin bass outside the zone - woohoo!!!

[NJAngler Bill]

Bru, it's amazing, with all the information available to anglers these days, that many, if not most, still don't know some very basic information...or I guess the "safety in numbers" theory applies to humans, as well.

Again, for those living in a box, it is clearly illegal to fish for striped bass outside of 3 miles, even if its an entirely a catch-and-release effort.

Having said that, I'll let this thread go for now...but my guess is it won't last long.

Thanks.

[Fish4Life]

Give the guy the benefit of the doubt maybe he really doesnt know or else he was fishing for blues. We were working the blues last weekend and happened to catch a couple striper ones that were released unharmed.

[TomKat]

He did say caught and released.

Outbound when are you fishing again?

[445 supermag]

Throwing metal. = blues to me with an accidental by catch of Bass. :D But who knows for sure. But did say caught and released. Maybe we will get more info from the origional poster to verify later.

Brian

[thejuju]

Not living in a box, but I was totally unaware that you couldn't C&R Stripers outside 3 mi, just no harvesting. I'm sure I'm not the only one w/ this belief.
If I'm wrong please educate me
(I'm really not being smart).

[kenbrown]

Never had the opportunity to 'accidentally' catch stripers past the 3 mile limit. When I fish for stripers, its usually in close to shore. If I were to catch a trophy outside the 3 mile limit I would be pissed off because I couldnt keep it.

Have seen 1 instance of a nice striper caught will fishing for blues at the Farms on the Jamaica..which is clearly more than 3 miles out! The mate gaffed it and brought it on board! No what is up with that???

[Ugly Mug 2]

Bill you amaze me you continue this path at what point did it become illegal to fish for bluefish or any species other than bass outside of 3 miles! Do you and all the defenders of this stance not fish outside of 3mi for the entire year? MAYBE SOME OF US STILL LIKE TO WET A LINE AND CATCH FISH ! Since this has been beaten to death a long response is not needed god knows we've killed it enough on this board! I can tell you this I will be fishing for blues when my daughter is home from college for fun! Outbound said he released all and may have put a few blues in the box what is the problem! I guess Ill start my post Ugly Mug slams the slammers at at the bank! Does that make it ok!

[ 11-25-2005, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Ugly Mug 2 ]

[Fly Ty R]

Not to beat a well-dead horse that is already buried and decomposing, but the "problem" is the LAW. You can't fish for stripers, including C&R, inside the EEZ. Closed zone means closed zone. The commies adhere to it, except for a few bad seeds. Why can't the recs? Are we really that greedy?

Ask the MP's, they will tell you the same thing. "Over 100 bass and blues" sounds like targetting, not accidental bycatch, of stripers (unless he meant 99 blues and 1 bass).

[Ugly Mug 2]

So for those of us that enjoy bluefishing we can't enjoy due to the bass inhabiting the same area! Might as well get the golf clubs back! You can do what you want I fish by the law as of now bluefishing is legal ask your MP that question! Recs, greed Fly Ty R you sit home Im going fishing LEGAL!!!

[fisher224]

Its amazing to hear people defend and try to rationalize doing something that is clearly against the law. There is no ambiguiity in the law.

To those who go out there, answer me this and be honest, when you leave the dock to head to the EEZ do you really want us to believe you are going out there to target bluefish and you are not going out there hoping to hit the motherload of stripers.

[Ugly Mug 2]

Fisher what makes you think that no one fishes for bluefish anymore? I grew up doing it taught my children to do it and even did a show in the rips for kids doing it! You guys are clearly reading this wrong. What is the problem with trolling or jigging for blues? The party boats do it through out the summer at that time I prefer to fish for other species at this time I love to chase blues at times this is in the EEZ Lets just suppose I dont even enjoy bass fishing! Sounds like your more for MPAs than fishing! Oh I know its all about the law with you so whats your problem you make the assumption its all about the mighty striped bass! I agree dont target bass outside of 3mi! Like I said whats the problem!

[ 11-25-2005, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Ugly Mug 2 ]

[dirty larry]

Lighten up guys. I am going fishing tomorrow out of Cape May. We are going to look for the birds. I don't care if they are more than three miles off the beach. I will be out there with the rest of the fleet catching striper. Some of my best days striper fishing have been chasing the birds and casting a varity of lures into the blitz. I have news for Fly Ty, there will be an entire fleet off of Cape May tomorrow fishing for blues and striper. We're not greedy it's called fishing and having fun. Fly Ty, It's alot more fun to fish than it is to sit behind your keyboard and be a boyscout. Did you ever go over the speed limit (That's illegal too) or do you live in a box. Bob, It's Larry on the 35 Carolina Classic. I'll be on 68 and drop down to 10 if we find them.

[Capt. Scott]

I'm with you Mug...if I run offshore and see birds blakening the skies in Oct-Dec...I'm casting a hopkins into them. As long as I'm getting blues with the majority of the casts...the "others"... stripers or whatever else are just part of the experience. If I'm only catching stripers...well I guess after 3-5 and no blues...I might back off...and of course they wouldn't wind up in the box.

If any of you have a problem with that...well I was enforcing fishery regulations when many of you were still in diapers :cool: ....and believe me I do fish for blues a lot and wherever they may be...they are certainly a better "gamefish" than a striped cow...they just don't cook up as well (usually). :D

Lighten up some of you...those that go out there and regularly C&R or box them up...well... they will never have the respect of real men...that's just the way of life...but not everyone that fishes farther than 3 miles this time of year is automatically a criminal.

[freaky One]

Well said guys....lighten up fellows...i'll be there looking for birds tomorrow too...

[ 11-25-2005, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: freaky One ]

[fisher224]

I'm sure there are a few people who fish for bluefish. The problem is the majority of people who go out there do so with one thing in mind, catching striped bass. You can bet those guys curse every bluefish they catch. You can also bet that 75% or more of those boats are taking illegal illegal striped bass back to the docks. Its illegal and unethical.

I'm sure there will be a fleet out there, hopefully there will be plenty of enforcement out there as well.

[NJAngler Bill]

Bob, Scott and others,

My intent was to make the angler who created this post aware that what he was doing was, in fact, illegal, because it seemed to me that he was unaware of that fact.

I really don't want to have to rehash this whole thing for another year. But when pressed, I will defend my position on this issue 'till the cows come home.

The EEZ is closed to striped bass fishing (not just catching, but fishing) for a reason, and a very good one - conservation. Plus, the management models do not account for any C&R mortality in the EEZ, as far as I'm aware. If they did, then we would be faced with more stringent regulations in state waters, which nobody wants. Now, I am fully aware that jigging fish does not result in the same mortality that other methods do. However, there is still some measurable mortality and later on in the season clams may be the ticket, not jigs, then mortality goes through the roof.

As far as I'm concerned all this doesn't matter anyway. The law is the law. Just because there's bluefish mixed in with the bass doesn't change anything. Nobody likes it. Heck, I'd love to be able to run out there and get in on that action. But, we have to obey the law because we expect commercials and other interests to do the same. Recreational EEZ violations are brought up all the time by the commercial sector in fisheries meetings, and it compromises the integrity of our community.

Again, as I've said many times before, this is a personal decision...every striper angler needs to make his own. My decision is to stay inside and fish legally. I encourage others to make the same decision.

[barnaby]

Originally posted by thejuju:
Not living in a box, but I was totally unaware that you couldn't C&R Stripers outside 3 mi, just no harvesting. I'm sure I'm not the only one w/ this belief.
If I'm wrong please educate me
(I'm really not being smart). UNITED STATES CODE ANNOTATED
TITLE 16. CONSERVATION
CHAPTER 71A--ATLANTIC STRIPED BASS CONSERVATION

§§ 5151. Findings and purposes

(a) Findings

The Congress finds and declares the following:
(1) Atlantic striped bass are of historic commercial and recreational importance and economic benefit to the Atlantic coastal States and to the Nation.
(2) No single government entity has full management authority throughout the range of the Atlantic striped bass.
(3) The population of Atlantic striped bass--
(A) has been subject to large fluctuations due to natural causes, fishing pressure, environmental pollution, loss and alteration of habitat, inadequacy of fisheries conservation and management practices, and other causes; and
(B) risks potential depletion in the future without effective monitoring and conservation and management measures.
(4) It is in the national interest to implement effective procedures and measures to provide for effective inter-jurisdictional conservation and management of this species.

(b) Purpose

It is therefore declared to be the purpose of the Congress in this chapter to support and encourage the development, implementation, and enforcement of effective interstate action regarding the conservation and management of the Atlantic striped bass.


§§ 5152. Definitions

As used in this chapter--

(1) the term "Magnuson Act" means the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act (16 U.S.C. 1801 et seq.).
(2) The term "Atlantic striped bass" means members of stocks or populations of the species Morone saxatilis, which ordinarily migrate seaward of the waters described in paragraph (3)(A)(i).
(3) The term "coastal waters" means--
(A) for each coastal State referred to in paragraph (4)(A)--
(i) all waters, whether salt or fresh, of the coastal State shoreward of the baseline from which the territorial sea of the United States is measured; and
(ii) the waters of the coastal State seaward from the baseline referred to in clause (i) to the inner boundary of the exclusive economic zone (EEZ);
(B) for the District of Columbia, those waters within its jurisdiction; and
(C) for the Potomac River Fisheries Commission, those waters of the Potomac River within the boundaries established by the Potomac River Compact of 1958.
(4) The term "coastal State" means--(A) Pennsylvania and each State of the United States bordering on the Atlantic Ocean north of the State of South Carolina;
(B) the District of Columbia; and
(C) the Potomac River Fisheries Commission established by the Potomac River Compact of 1958.
(5) The term "Commission" means the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission established under the interstate compact consented to and approved by the Congress in Public Laws 77-539 [May 4, 1942, c. 283, 56 Stat. 267] and 81-721 [Aug. 19, 1950, c. 763, 64 Stat. 467].
(6) The term "exclusive economic zone" has the meaning given such term in section 1802(6) of this title.
(7) The term "fishing" means--
(A) the catching, taking, or harvesting of Atlantic striped bass, except when incidental to harvesting that occurs in the course of commercial or recreational fish catching activities directed at a species other than Atlantic striped bass;
(B) the attempted catching, taking, or harvesting of Atlantic striped bass; and
(C) any operation at sea in support of, or in preparation for, any activity described in subparagraph (A) or (B).
The term does not include any scientific research authorized by the Federal Government or by any State government.
(8) The term "moratorium area" means the coastal waters with respect to which a declaration under section 5154(a) of this title applies.
(9) The term "moratorium period" means the period beginning on the day on which moratorium is declared under section 5154(a) of this title regarding a coastal State and ending on the day on which the Commission notifies the Secretaries that State has taken appropriate remedial action with respect to those matters that were the case of the moratorium being declared.
(10) The term "Plan" means a plan for managing Atlantic striped bass, or an amendment to such plan, that is prepared and adopted by the Commission.
(11) The term "Secretary" means the Secretary of Commerce or a designee of the Secretary of Commerce.
(12) The term "Secretaries" means the Secretary of Commerce and the Secretary of the Interior or their designees.


CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS
TITLE 50--WILDLIFE AND FISHERIES
CHAPTER VI--FISHERY CONSERVATION AND MANAGEMENT, NATIONAL OCEANIC AND
ATMOSPHERIC ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
PART 697--ATLANTIC COASTAL FISHERIES COOPERATIVE MANAGEMENT
SUBPART A--GENERAL PROVISIONS
Current through January 1, 2002; 66 FR 67702
§§ 697.7 Prohibitions.

(b) Atlantic striped bass fishery. In addition to the prohibitions set forth in §§ 600.725 of this chapter, it is unlawful for any person to do any of the following:
(1) Fish for Atlantic striped bass in the EEZ.
(2) Harvest any Atlantic striped bass from the EEZ.
(3) Possess any Atlantic striped bass in or from the EEZ, except in the following area: The EEZ within Block Island Sound, north of a line connecting Montauk Light, Montauk Point, NY, and Block Island Southeast Light, Block Island, RI; and west of a line connecting Point Judith Light, Point Judith, RI, and Block Island Southeast Light, Block Island, RI. Within this area, possession of Atlantic striped bass is permitted, provided no fishing takes place from the vessel while in the EEZ and the vessel is in continuous transit.
(4) Retain any Atlantic striped bass taken in or from the EEZ.

[ 11-25-2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: barnaby ]

[Capt. Scott]

Sorry if I'm offending anyone...but I don't see anything illegal in what the ORIGINAL poster said....he said birds...casting metal (not targeting a particular species), releasing all...no particular percentage of one over another...so targeting would not be easily proven. It's great to advise anyone that specific targeting is illegal, Drifting eels near structure might raise my eyebrows but casting into working birds this time of year is just as likely to bring in a blue as anything....

Now I will restate what I said before...if he was catching more than 50 percent stripers...he should have moved to a different flock of birds. If the majority was blues (say 65-75 of a hundred fish and the rest were stripers...as a former CG officer who testified plenty of times in fisheries court...I would certainly not have a problem with that percentage of bycatch.

Of course it was post #1 so I wouldn't get too worked up....

[ 11-25-2005, 07:37 PM: Message edited by: Capt. Scott ]

[NJAngler Bill]

c,mon, Scott.

A conversation that will never, ever be heard...

"Oh, darn. There's a few bass in this school of fish. Quick, Captain, start the engines and find us a school with only blues, not bass. That'll be better."

This past summer, the RFA and other groups fought hard to keep white marlin off the endangered species list. Why was that so important? Because if it became illegal to fish for white marlin, then we'd also have to stop fishing in those areas where whiteys might be encountered. So, essentially all canyon fishing becomes illegal. The RFA knew this and that's the primary reason why they fought so hard.

Same issue here. Bass and blues together in the EEZ. It's illegal to target bass, so the blues essentially become off-limits, too. Harsh reality.

[FISHINBUDDY]

If your in the woods with a shotgun you must be hunting for deer. If it's not deer season you are illegal. If you were hunting for something other than deer, knowing deer are present than other game is off limits too, Harsh reality! And make sure you follow the speed limit to and from the woods even during deer season!

[Capt. Scott]

Where have I been??? Since when is bycatch at the recreational level whether white marlin or striped bass make all forms of other fishing illegal??? I've fished over a great portion of the US, fresh and salt and it's never been that strict before...and belive me I READ AND FOLLOW THE REGS...EVEN ALASKA"S 100 PAGE BOOK ON REGS!!!

Obviously I'm also dealing with a different class of people all of a sudden...most of my friends always have had honor and respect...and would pick up and move on...or they wouldn't be back on my boat.

I seriously doubt that you would be prosecuted for C&R a mixed bag...especially if you didn't have anything in the box...or only blues...If it is illegal with that logic...then ALL forms of fishing offshore is illegal because at any time you could catch a prohibited species...

[Bella donna]

Looking For Some Tips on Sturgeon fishing. Thanks.

[TWIN D'S]

I've seen a number of posts in this thread that imply that the activity of fishing beyond 3 miles is illegal. That's not true.

What you have is a law that is virtually unenforceable, and that is why this thread will run full steam until February. :)

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by Bella donna:
Looking For Some Tips on Sturgeon fishing. Thanks. The last ASMFC meeting I went to, the data indicate that the fishery will be rebuilt by 2038.

[NJAngler Bill]

Ya know what, guys...everybody makes good points. Twin D's is absolutely correct in that this is a law that cannot be enforced. Scott has been on the enforcement side and agrees. My position is that enforcement has nothing to do with it. This is, and probably always will be, one of those issues that will always be problematic and will always divide our community.

And ya know what, Phil, this is not gonna run until February because we're through talking about it.