Saving the big momma's

[Capt Harv]

It looks like the ASMFC is going to leave striped bass regulations the same for 2005 because of conflicting data. The general sensus is that we may be overfishing the large stripers. On a scientific basis we know that the largest female stripers produce the healthiest eggs and by far the greatest number of eggs, numbering in the millions, instead of the thousands produced by the juvenile females.
The technical committee of the striped bass board of the ASMFC came up with some conservation equivalencies to the 2 fish at 28 inches, but none were considered that would pose an upper size limit, where all fish over that size would be released.
Having regulations like these have worked for other species like the red drum in Florida. Tournaments are somewhat affected by these type of limits, but still go on.
If the ASMFC had concluded we were overfishing, we might be down to one fish instead of the current two. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on regulations that would include an upper size limit, which should help preserve the breeding stock. The breeding stock is currently 30 million pounds, with 28 million pounds being the number ASMFC wants to maintain.

[THECHUMSTAIN]

Harv how can they put a number on the size of a stock??? Thats what blows my mind with these groups that play with goverment money and our money then tell us what we need to do. The goverment pays $300 for toilet seats. 30 million lbs where is this number invented and how?

[KRAYFISH]

Good question Capt. Harv. I would like to make four comments:

1. Even though I supported the current regulations on striped bass, I would now in retrospect go for two at 28". Not being able to keep a fish between 29" and 34" just does not seem equitable, particularly if we don't have the bonus tag.

2.All barners should send letters to Acting Governor Codey asking for his support of the bonus program.

3.I believe that there should be a size restriction on the big breeders. I don't know what that should be, but no fish over 40" is kept on my boat.

4.After speaking with a number of commercial guys over the past two years, I am convinced that they don't want the big ones either, since they bring a lesser price at the market, and we all know they do not taste as good.

[TWIN D'S]

chumstain, I for one have very little faith in their numbers. That 30 million figure is derived using the VPA, the same beautiful formula that has essentially been proven defective while managing weakfish.

We have regs now that takes the pressure off big fish somewhat. But then everyone complained about them this year. Those regs put plenty of fish back in the sea.

I, for one, am against any upper size limit unless there is a mechanism in place for taking a trophy.

[THECHUMSTAIN]

I like a middle range between the 2-28" and the present. Also bring back a true trophy tag have an upper range at 40" and a trophy over that.

20"-30"
34"-40"
and a true trophy over 40"

[on the hook]

Twin, I agree. I love striper meat. I like fishing for them. Usually (before this year) just take slot & 30+/- for table. NEVER have used a trophy tag. Had 1 one year that a friend sent in for. Make a trophy tag a TROPHY tag. Simple. One tag a year. Don't like current regs, but I still got some meat. Didn't catch a fish over 33" this year myself. Know q

[on the hook]

Hit wrong button! Know q

[on the hook]

WTF? Know a lot of people who have tags, that they never used. Not saying they didn't take fish either! Put money on it that I'm not alone in this. Current regs put pressure on bigs 4 me. I would rather take a 30" 4 table, but now if I catch a 40", I take it. Make a "true" trophy tag. Personally, and friends of mine, won't even fish Cape May this year. No interest in catching 50 fish, and can't keep one! Will think of other reasons 4 regs later. Thx, VAL

[hipkvw]

Originally posted by THECHUMSTAIN:
I like a middle range between the 2-28" and the present. Also bring back a true trophy tag have an upper range at 40" and a trophy over that.

20"-30"
34"-40"
and a true trophy over 40" This would be favorable to MOST fisherman. I would put a cap on how many Trophy tags are issued to each angler depending on REAL data.

[West Ave Mike]

Two at 28 inches.

[Saltwater Angler]

All Striper fishing regulations should be the same throughout the Mid-Atlantic States and anywhere else that striper fishing is taking place. If I release a 30? fish and somebody else keep it in Maryland or North Carolina, what have we achieved?
NJ anglers get the short end of the stick.

[CaptG]

The regs are at fault for the current status of our stocks. While there's no lack of big fish, they do need to be beter protected, but I can tell you there is an overabundance of little fish which in my opinion can only lead to overforaging, stunting and disease. 2-4 fish from 18-34" one over 28" When you can commonly catch 50 stripers in a day between 15-34" only being aloud to keep 1 is rediculous. Especially wehn we can keep 10 weakfish per man, 8 fluke, man, 10 bluefish, 8 tog, 25 seabass, 3 Drum even 3 yellowfin, all of which we have a tougher time catching in #'s than the ever so plentiful striper.

[TheAdamBomb]

I think a lot of the smaller bag limits come from stripers taking a good while(relatively speaking) to reach sexual maturity. Additionally, they don't become very prolific until they're considerably older. Making the regulations much more liberal would cause the stock to decline in short order, as it would take the more recent year classes some time to reach the breeding fold.

You also have to consider the fishing pressure on the striped bass. Other less prolific, long lived fish such as the tog and black drum, have far less fishing pressure on them, allowing for more liberal bag limits. Far less boats fish for tog, and most boats that fish for drum don't keep their limit. I know on my boat we won't keep our limit. We'll keep maybe one a man and catch and release from there. Yellowfin tuna are incredibly prolific and reach sexual maturity at a young age.

[ 12-21-2004, 08:09 AM: Message edited by: TheAdamBomb ]

[CaptG]

I belive a 24" striper is of spawning size, if not, it's 28" yet we can still only keep one and can't keep any from 28-34" Is a 13" weakfish of spawning size? A 14" fluke, a 12" seabass, a puppy drum, a snapper bluefish? We can 3-10 of them, why not the striper? The whole coast from NY to NC is swarming w/ them yet we can only keep 1 per man. I'm all for conservation, but not when it comes by way of "unreasonable" bag limits.

[ 12-21-2004, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: CaptG ]

[Capt Harv]

Let me rephrase the question before the thread gets too long. There is a real possiblity that we may end up fishing at a one fish per person limit rather then the current two. The ASMFC looks at the best available statistics and makes decisions on this basis. This year data was conflicting, so 2005 regulations will be unchanged (New Jersey has the option of changing their conservation equivalency option through the legislature.)
The problem is that foresight is in order to prevent last minute problems. The ASMFC allows the striped bass statistical committee to come up with conservational equivalency options. If we can reduce our catch of the larger fish, which seem to be the ones being overfished, we may be able to prevent having to go to one fish per person. In order to do this, the statistical committee will need to study this in advance.
So, my basic question to all my friends here is: Would you be willing to fish under a quota that has an upper size limit if it meant being able to continue to fish at two fish per person. As a side note, it is possible that the bonus tag program could be the means to keep one large fish, at least in NJ. Your thoughts please........

[stripedfever]

I would like a 2 fish 24-40" and a true trophy tag bigger than 40" !! There would be alot less nonsense for those of us who love the meat to keep a few for the dinner plate, without worrying about the fish being 28" or 27 7/8" !! There are a ton of fish out there this year and could alway's change limit's accordingly . Quality of fish may get better if you thin the herd !! Give the bunker population a break !! I don't know about everyone else but , other then charter boat's and head boat's, a picture is just as nice if not better then killing the big cow's unless it's 79 Lbs. Break out that trophy tag !! Happy Holiday's to all,be safe and healthy for the New Year !!! Striped Fever

[TheAdamBomb]

Striped bass reach full sexual productivity between their seventh and eigth year.

MOST weakfish reach sexual maturity by the end of their first year, and ALL by the end of their second year(about 12").

Black sea bass are hermaphrodites, switching from female to male as they age. They are sexually mature by age two(about 9").

Fluke are sexually mature at age two(12" to 14" in length).

Tog are mature between two and four years of age(anywhere from 7 to 12 inches in length). They are most prolific when 14" to 16" in length.

Striped bass are mature around 22", but it takes them about four years to attain that size. Generally MINIMUM size limits are set so as to give the fish a chance to spawn at least once. If you open up striper bag limits, the herd will get thinned quickly due to fishing pressure, and it will take a fair amount of time for the younger year classes to reach the breeding fold.

Harv, relative to your question, I would have no problems running with an upper size limit, so long as there was a true trophy program that would allow anglers one trophy class fish per season. I have said for many years that a true slot limit with an upper size limit would be good for the breeding stock.

[ 12-21-2004, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: TheAdamBomb ]

[Bob ECT]

If you think we're catching too many big fish now just wait until the North Carolina numbers get thrown into the mix. They've never been included before.

I have no problem at all with an upper size limit, fish over 32 inch taste like $%^#. I'd also like to see the bonus program change to a trophy program.

You guys who want more fish to keep will just have to start fishing more often smile.gif

[TWIN D'S]

Capt Harv,

I could fish under any size/bag limits, so long as I have the option of taking home the fish of a lifetime. If I can't take home the fish of a lifetime, you won't see me out there freezing for a fish that has no where near the taste of seabass or tog.

[Brian E. Mullaney]

I prefer a slot like the redfish have down south - 2 fish 28"-36". These are the best eating and you protect the big mommas.

Forgot to add - one trophy (true trophy) tag per year.

[ 12-21-2004, 11:54 AM: Message edited by: Brian E. Mullaney ]

[Captblock]

Would you be willing to fish under a quota that has an upper size limit if it meant being able to continue to fish at two fish per person. YES

The article below is from the JCAA Newsletter.

At the November JCAA general meeting, a representative from the division of fish and wildlife gave the current direction the division is leaning toward regarding striped bass matters. There was a discussion and the questions were asked. Here are some of the answers to our questions by Division of Fish and Wildlife representative:

Under current regulations the bonus program will not be the same as in previous years, and probably would not be available to recreational fishermen in 2005.

If the rules are changed by legislation to 2 bass at 28?, then the bonus program as it has existed in the past will again be in effect. Namely, anglers need only apply and get 2 tags and replenishment of the tags will proceed as in the past. Tackle stores that were in the program would have replacement tags. Party and charter boats would have tags available which they would fill out for patrons who wanted to keep a third fish over 28?.

The possibility of approaching ASMFC for separate regulations and management zones that some groups had asked about is not a viable option with Law Enforcement or the Division because of the impossibility of monitoring the catch, where boats launch and land and the lack of funding due to across the board 2005 state budget cutbacks. Additionally, there is no way such a rule change could be put in place in time for 2005 because of the lengthy and complicated processes required to even attempt such a change.

The club representatives then had a discussion. It was then asked of the club representatives if the membership of any club had changed their position on what striped bass regulations the clubs wanted. The club representatives indicated that they had polled their club membership, and that overwhelmingly their members still supported 2 fish at 28inches. The Hi-Mar Striper Club also polled the participants at their striped bass tournament resulting in an overwhelming vote in favor of 2 fish at 28?. This is the striped bass regulation that their clubs want JCAA to lobby for in 2005. A number of club representatives also stated that their members found the current striped bass regulations too confusing.

[SurfinFish]

I just wanted to clarify something regarding Striper age/length curves and their times of maturity. A 24-26" fish is in the range of 3-4 yrs. old, a 30 inch fish around 5-7 yrs. old. While bass have rapid growth in their early stages, after they reach 3-4 yrs. old, the growth rate slows down. keeping size limits set on length alone would do a great injustice to the stock. this is why the "tweeners" go back, they are in the start of the prime of their breeding age. there is data showing that Female egg production slows as the fish reaches 10+ years of age. By protecting the 28-34 inchers, you're protecting the prime breeding class. The current regs. are actually based on science need to be made up and down the coast. Just think in 3 years when all the "tweeners" you put back are now 40" fish!

Good luck and Catch-em up! Still some time left in the season!

[TWIN D'S]

Block, the JCAA doesn't advocate an upper size limit, as shown in the letter you posted. An upper size limit means if you catch the new world record it must go back. There will never be any new world record.

[sparse grey]

To the original question. Yes I would be happy to have an upper limit. If you are concerned about releasing the fish of a lifetime I could live with one tag per angler per season. My $.03
Ron

[Captblock]

Originally posted by TWIN D'S:
Block, the JCAA doesn't advocate an upper size limit, as shown in the letter you posted. An upper size limit means if you catch the new world record it must go back. There will never be any new world record. A trophy tag program would allow you keep a world record fish if NJ has one. I would hope if we went to a upper limit that they would have a trophy program for that big fish that you want to keep.

[Capt. SeeWeed]

Harv:
My feeling is that a slot for two fish at a size that supports a year class at least one chance to spawn prior to being harvested should answer the mail to sustain a good stock. The trophy tag a 40+ would add to the challange and limit a possible reduction in catch.

[TheAdamBomb]

SurfinFish, thanks for clarifying the age/length curve. I re-read my post and realized that I wasn't totally clear on what I was trying to get across. My references show a 22"-24" bass to be in the neighborhood of four years old. As a female, this is sexually "mature." However, their full productive ability isn't achieved until they are about seven to eight years of age. That's what I was trying to get across. Other species reach full productivity at a much younger age.

[tautog]

Two fish at 24"-34". No fish over 34". While eating stripers is nice, most people want to have a decent shot at a big fish. The way to do this is to protect big fish. People would still have a good shot at getting a few nice meals with this limit. I fish a lot in Florida and they are having great success with true slot limits. Just just bring a camera and digital scale with you. I would have no problem doing this with other species, if commercial fishing was banned for them. Big tog deserve to be released too, but I only do so sporadically. If they remove the pots and roller draggers, I would be willing to release all tog over 22".

[ 12-21-2004, 02:24 PM: Message edited by: tautog ]

[Reel-ality]

I have a question, I read two fish at 28. Does this mean two at 28 OR greater or 28 only. Myself I would like to see two at 28 to 34 and a true trophy at over 40.

Dave Isanski

[doyle007]

i support an upper limit and a true trophy tag issued only once a year.

another issue that has to be thought about is the striper's food source. without adequate amounts of baitfish, the issue of 40"+ fish won't matter too much. the menhaden is the bait that comes to mind first. i believe that we have to get more serious about protecting the bait, so that the striper has the food to enable growth to trophy sizes.

[TheAdamBomb]

Protecting the bait is of the upmost importance.

Reel-ality, 28" or greater.

[CaptG]

I don't claim to be a fish biologist, so i'll beleive you guys in regards to the spawning sizes of the fish. However, there are so many small bass out there, I am afraid they will end up doing severe damage to our delicate back bay estuaries if we let their populations grow wildly out of control, which is allready happening in my opinion. I for one, will not be happy if we have millions of 30-60 lb. bass to play catch and release with but have no more flounder, seabass, tog, bluefish, weakfish, croakers, crabs etc.. to fish for. Managing a species primarily to have a trophy fishery is an elitist attitude which fails to take into account the consequences of it's purpose. Furthermore, agreeing to a 1 fish bag limit effectively says we are fine w/ having our rights to harvest an abundant public resource being slowly taken away. Further restricting anglers in a fishery that's been fully restored is not the answer. If we are going to further protect the big fish, let us take more smaller fish for the table, which in the pt. of this argument won't affect the stocks because saving more big fish will result in more eggs which will produce more small fish and replace the ones we are taking away. Also, I have to abut the theory that the meat of the bigger fish is no good, they all taste the same, properly bled, iced and trimmed! Granted, the bigger one may have more PCB's, Mercury, whatever, but again, when properly pre-pared that's not a factor! The bad meat argument is just another cry by the elitists to not kill any big fish. My answer to proper fisheries management is to set regulations based on what's best to ensure a healthy marine ecosystem so that all the life that shares it can thrive. Managing our fisheries by the wants of the people who exploit it is not the answer!

[sweet release1]

All Striper fishing regulations should be the same throughout the Mid-Atlantic States and anywhere else that striper fishing is taking place. If I release a 30? fish and somebody else keep it in Maryland or North Carolina, what have we achieved?
NJ anglers get the short end of the stick.

well said, i have thought this for years.we let go a 29"bass and two states down someone takes that fish. people these fish move from south to north then north to south !!!!! the fishing pressure is the same from state to state.we are all just thinking jersey but the other states that have bass move through there waters are taking large amounts of bass !!we
need to come up with some sort of over all plan that works for the east coast,because the fish from state to state are the same fish,good fishing ,matt

[GOOD TIMES]

I am in favor of a two fish per person limit per day; at 24" to 39",----And two true "Trophy Tags" per season per angler 40" and larger...So every one has a chance to keep the fish of the year, or a state record fish.... Atlantic coast wide, period.---All anglers on the east coast equal opportunity!! ----Just my $.02 cents
-------RON-------First Mate,VETCRAFT SPORTFISHING

[GOOD TIMES]

Add to previous post.--All fisherman who fish tournaments, obviously fish more often than the once a year angler on vacation.--His trophy tag will be a true trophy tag!(save your tags for the tournaments)---Just my $.03 cents---RON---

[CaptG]

Reading the post again about the age of other fish it says they reach "sexual maturity" at an age of 2 etc.. but striper reach sexual maturity at 22-24" age 3 or 4 but are at "full productivity" at 7-8 yrs. old. I think the older and "full productivity" part coincides w/ the other fish too as they get older, bigger, more eggs etc.. so I still don't see harvesting the 24-28" striper being any diff than harvesting the other fish a year after they reach "sexual maturity". Also surfinfish say's the striper are most reproductive at 28-34" then their reproductive productivity wanes after that age. I agree w/ this theory, which coincidently abuts the argument that protecting the truly big bass 40+" will result in more eggs and more bass which is what Capt Harv is conveying in his post. So this argument is truly about having a trpohy fishery more than it is about protecting the breeding class. Going back to my argument that I beleive having an overabundance of small fish results in overforaging, stunting and disease is why I beleive we need to keep the smaller fish populations in check. In most environments, you won't get the big fish you covet if these things take place, just an overabundace of small fish. This is why I'm an advocate of increasing the pressure on the smaller fish. I would also like to see more big fish, who wouldn't, but for this to take place, there needs to be enough room and forage for them to grow. W/ huge schools of small fish and competition for limited forage, this doesn't happen. A trophy tag at one or two a year I think is a bit conservative though. I'd like to see 1 fish per man over 34" and if it's true the 28-34" fish are the prime breeders, I can live w/ protecting them as we did this year, however give us 2-4 at 24-28" then.

[TheAdamBomb]

CaptG, I would have to disagree with the post stating that 28" to 34" bass are "prime breeding stock." It has been proven that fecundity is highest among bass between 20lbs. and 50lbs. I don't believe it is just about having a "trophy fishery."

[Capt Harv]

Gentlemen, I appreciate all your comments on this subject. Many studies have shown the large cows may produce as many as 3 million eggs, whereas the smaller ones produces proportionately less. One study also showed that the eggs of the larger cows produce the most viable young, due to the high quality yolk sac................but........anyway the point I am trying to make is that we need to be proactive in our thinking about striped bass regulations. We all saw what happenned when we waited till the last minute and had to call the legislature back on an emergency basis.
We all have opinions on what we think is best for us anglers and for the striper population. The ASMFC which regulates out to 3 miles and NOAA fisheries (formerly NMFS) which regulates out to 200 miles, both rely on the best data they can find, however faulty, to come up with regulations. In the case of stripers, if data is strong enough to convince ASMFC that we are overfishing larger stripers, they must do something about it. One option they would have is to cut us back to one fish like it was in the early 90's. Another possible option may be to keep it at two fish, but put an upper size limit on them. Fishery scientists know that when a population of fish starts to show a shift to alot of smaller fish, that this is a sign the population is in trouble.
As I mentioned, I am glad that so many of my friends here have strong thoughts about this matter. We need to think ahead though guys..........If the stats next year show that we are not overfishing the large fish, nothing needs to be done. If they do show that we are overfishing them, ASMFC will dictate to us what the rules will be, and that could be one fish per man with the present way of thinking, and it may be too late to come up with different options at that point. Sometimes it pays to think outside the box and be preemptive in our efforts. It would be good to let the statistical committee know that putting an upper size limit may be an option to cutting us down to one fish, if this needs to be done.
And back to what I was trying to get your thoughts on: would you prefer to fish at one fish with no upper limits or fish at two fish with an upper limit, whatever may need to be.

[Dr. Bass]

Real easy guys

ONE fish 30-40inch per guy

No tag, no bonus, game over

Just like the snook / red down here.

Go home your a winner with one fish. That's six fillets

Too much talk about quality sh!t

Stick to QUANTITY. one fish period, all the rest is guessing, KISS

[hipkvw]

Capt Harv and Adam...I have been screaming it for years only to be put down by the South Jersey fishery proof...specifically the Delaware Bay.. and Chunkings fish tank! LOL ;) Glad someone else is stating the obvious. Still Luv ya G ;) smile.gif

[CaptG]

Capt. Harv, to answer your question, I'd have to go w/ the 2 fish and upper size limit...but only up until the stocks of big fish would recover. 1 fish is too hard to swallow w/ the stocks so plentiful! My primary concern is to ensure the health of the fisheries but my other concern is loosing our rights to it.

Adam, oh and HIP you trophy monger you :D to some it is, that is apparent. However, as far as the egg issue, I'm still on the fence w/ that one. I've seen enough BS scientific theories unproven, so I choose to think for myself! I have to consider the fact that alot of species loose their reproductive capabilities when they reach a certain level of maturity, kinda like menopause smile.gif or in the stripers case, I have a theory that the real big cows may choose not to make the trek up the rivers every year, rather they dump their load in the salt and get on w/ their primary concern, eating bunker while leaving the younger, more aggressive fish to make the trek up river to dump their eggs.

[ 12-21-2004, 11:02 PM: Message edited by: CaptG ]

[hipkvw]

The 40-50 pounders caught in the upper Delaware, Susky, and Hudson are proof otherwise. Proof to me at least. Hard, unbiased data would be nice to see though. Is it even possible?

[MDC]

I think the TC will look at changes in size limits, creel, and season?like when NJ did something different but as conservative with it?s current regs

[Guatemala Dave]

I realize I'm late on the post, but it seems like there are finally a lot of anglers coming onto my page I have been expounding for years.

I can not agree with two fish over 28" with no upper limit. My thought continues to be:

Pre-Spawn: 1 fish 24"-28", close All spawning areas in the state, not just Delaware river. Mullica, Great Egg, anywhere spawning can be confirmed.

Post Spawn summer: 1 fish 24" to 34" Protect the local population, maybe we will see a better summer fishery.

Fall Migration: Sept. 1st to January 1st. 2 fish 24" to 34"

True Trophy tag available, over 45" at a cost of $50 each in the form of the Tarpon Tags in Florida. Money goes back to the fishery.

The present bonus system is the result of NJ commercial quota which probably must be used or it will be given back to the other commercial states so we might as well keep it. Whatever the specificataions why not sell the tags at $5.00 each and give the money back to the striper program. That would actually make it a true commercial fishery and the state fish and game would reep the benifits.

I realize this would hurt the Delaware bay Bunker dunkers, but the fishing would be incredible.

[TWIN D'S]

Dave LOL!! Everyones complaining that the current regs are too hard to understand. The Einsteins of the world will never understand or remember what you're typing.

[on the hook]

OK, after reading all the responses, I will go with 1 @ 24-28, & 1 28-36. Now, 1 TROPHY TAG PER YEAR for a fish over 40". Not to be used for anything else. NO BONUS TAGS. Agree that If everyone that catches a 39" fish keeps it, there will be no 40" in the future. Most of us ( I think) are out there for large fish. If I gotta throw back a 60# fish by law, I ain't gonna like it. Don't even think Hip would like it either :D

[Captblock]

Originally posted by TWIN D'S:
Dave LOL!! Everyones complaining that the current regs are too hard to understand. The Einsteins of the world will never understand or remember what you're typing. LOL :D You can say that again. Try to explain to someone that the striper regulations are different in the same body of water and they will say, "huh". :confused:

[Bob ECT]

Originally posted by TWIN D'S:
Dave LOL!! Everyones complaining that the current regs are too hard to understand. The Einsteins of the world will never understand or remember what you're typing. People complaining about our current bass regs complexity need to take a look at Florida and their 1,000 of regs. We must be retards if FL anglers can understand theirs.

[Brian E. Mullaney]

two fish with an upper limit, whatever may need to be - Id like 38" - one tru trophy tag per year.

[JoeBlack]

Captain Harv,

I have been saying the following for a while:

* 2 fish at 28" or greater, but less than 40" per day

* 1 fish over 40" per season (1 fall/winter season; closed in spring)

[Capt Bill]

While the attahed statement from stripers forever does not address the question at hand- SIZE LIMITS- it brings up the most pressing issue we have, in my opinion, the opening of the EEZ. I saw first hand the commercial devistation of stripers in VA. and NC. I also fished the Cape May Rips in 1970 and caught plenty of Bass of all sizes and saw in the eighties that it was almost impossible to catch a bass anywhere.When the Federal restriction on catching bass beyond 3 miles was inforced the fishery returned. If the EZZ is maintained the numbers of bass should be sufficient to support a larger creel and ,in my opinion if the EEZ is opened we will have a repeat of the decline or even the distruction of the stocks. To get a look at the commercial impact, take a look at STIPERS FOREVER"s web sight. Better yet, join the organization and support them.


Stripers Forever -

As some of you may already know, NMFS has decided to delay the
environmental impact statement (EIS) currently in progress until the
results of the 2005 striped bass stock assessment are compiled by the
ASMFC. This will be a great disappointment to some of the states with
commercial fisheries, who had hoped to have their netters and pinhookers
working federal waters this coming summer. But to most people, keeping
the EEZ closed seems like the only reasonable course of action. The 2004
stock assessment report, released last month, indicated that spawning size
bass were being heavily overfished and NMFS officials specifically cited
the lack of faith that the ASMFC Striped Bass Technical Committee had in
its own statistics. Everything that we see and hear points to this being a
good time to be cautious and a poor time to take steps that would put more
pressure on the fish. There will be no reopening of the EEZ in 2005!

The NMFS decision was not made solely because of lobbying by the
recreational community in general, or Stripers Forever in particular;
however I'm confident that our efforts and those of our members had to
help a great deal. NMFS is well aware that the recreational community has
had enough of the commercial fishing industry destroying one important
fishery after another. With the striped bass fishery they seem to
understand that a deep and distinct line has been drawn in the sand.

Also, for your information, Stripers Forever has sent copies of our
fishing survey results for 2003 and 2004 to officials at NMFS, USFW, and
each state in the ASMFC. We think this is the only such coast-wide survey
of angler sentiment and fishing experience, and that it contains valuable
information for the open-minded to consider.

Brad Burns

P.S. Help us continue to expand the strength and reach of SF. Please
pass this e-mail along and ask your friends to join today.

For more information on Stripers Forever check out our website at
www.stripersforever.org (http://www.stripersforever.org)

[In Depth]

Dave,
What is closing the spawning grounds going to accomplish if the fish are being caught elsewhere ? if you want to take that extreme view why not just shut down the entire spring fishery coast wide. I'm shore that will go over rather nicely :rolleyes:

[KRAYFISH]

I like Joe Black's proposal. It is very close to mine and compromises on the big fish:

2 at 28" but not over 40"

1 at 40" or better per season [ spring/fall ]This would be the trophy tag.

[Brian E. Mullaney]

Gene Im with that - and so are many others - we have to make this work!! a true trophy!!!!

[JoeBlack]

In the words of macho man savage - RIGHT ON BROTHER! :D

Seriously, most of us agree...bring back the true tag program. From what I gather, people are more than happy with two 28" fish. They also taste better and cook easier when they aren't 3"+ thick :eek:

[Old Hat]

Ocean 2 fish 24"-36", one trophy over 40" per year.
Chesapeake bay should still have different limits that allow for smaller fish after the spawners have exited the bay (june 1). 90% of the stripers come from the chesapeake estuary.

[egghead]

Let me rephrase the question before the thread gets too long. There is a real possiblity that we may end up fishing at a one fish per person limit rather then the current two.

The one fish per a person was a scare tactic used by some to incite anger. Why would an overfishing situation automatically result in going to one fish instead of instituting higher minimums or slots?

I found it incrediblly irresponsible by the purveyors of this nonsense to make the statement.

[TWIN D'S]

Ya' gotta' love fish politics. :D

[tautog]

I threw back a 55" bass that was caught in the EZ, and I lived.

[Dr. Bass]

Originally posted by Bob ECT:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TWIN D'S:
Dave LOL!! Everyones complaining that the current regs are too hard to understand. The Einsteins of the world will never understand or remember what you're typing. People complaining about our current bass regs complexity need to take a look at Florida and their 1,000 of regs. We must be retards if FL anglers can understand theirs. </font>[/QUOTE]That's right

And it tis

ONE FISH.... PER MAN

No Biggies allowed

Take the Pic and let her Go Mon


....

Just Clearing Things Up as We Say here on TBB

[Capt Harv]

Egghead, I hope what you say is correct. Why and who would want to introduce this scare factor? The problem as I see it, is that if we are determined to be killing too many large fish, what options does ASMFC have? Raising the minimum size limit would eventually solve the problem, but not in short order. Reducing the catch to 1 fish would also gradually solve the problem. Establishing slot fishing is probably the most viable and fair option, putting a minimum and maximum size limit on the fish we catch. Maximum size limits would be something new for NJ anglers. I don't know if this is something that the technical committee of the striped bass board would even consider. If we are indeed killing too many large stripers, in reality, we don't need to stop catching all large fish, we just need to kill less of them. Of course, who knows if this would apply to commercial fishing as well? NJ, with its bonus tag program might be able to utilize this quota to allow larger fish to be taken. Your thoughts on this please.

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by Capt Harv:
Egghead, I hope what you say is correct. Why and who would want to introduce this scare factor Probably the same people who told us the bonus quota would be exhausted this season because of the new regs. Remember, they said all 300,000 lbs of quota would be used and then no one would be able to take a 28-34 inch fish. It simply never came to pass. They also claimed the regs are too confusing.

[egghead]

Agendas. People seeking more fish for their state or trying to take away fish from another, to promote gamefish status, the would-be social engineers who want to see 100% CnR or stricter limits in hopes of chasing the more casual angler out of the fishery.

[CaptG]

Originally posted by egghead:
Agendas. People seeking more fish for their state or trying to take away fish from another, to promote gamefish status, the would-be social engineers who want to see 100% CnR or stricter limits in hopes of chasing the more casual angler out of the fishery. I completely agree the threat of 1 fish is purely a manipulative mananagement approach. While I also agree we should better protect the big fish, consequently, further protecting the hords of small fish would be detrimental and an insult to rec anglers rights to the fishery.

[ 12-24-2004, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: CaptG ]

[Ugly Mug 2]

Harv, I have been on here multiple times saying fish them like the red fish regs 2 fish say in between 24 and 34 and a trophy tag for x amount per year per person similar to a deer tag. I have a question Adam stated the breeding age being hard to attain...does this mean it affects the larger fish down the road if you take smaller fish more than if you take a larger fish say over 38" Maybe Im missing something seems like quite a conundrum to me??

[Capt Harv]

Bob.........95% of female stripers are spawning by the age of 5, being slower to become sexually mature then their male counterparts. Fecundity ( reproductive ability) is almost linear with egg production ability being higher per body weight of fish. In simple language, the larger fish are more important in replacing the lost fish in a population, then are the smaller breeding females.
All fish populations are pyramidal in age makeup if left undisturbed, meaning there are many more young then old fish. Many young of all species including stripers become forage for other or their own species. A very small percentage of fertilized eggs ever produce fish old enough to breed. I have never seen an exact statistic but is probably less then 1 in a thousand. Nature sets harsh rules for survival. While juvenile fish are lost in all species, as the size of predator fish like stripers increases, less fish are lost to predation. Mature striper's biggest predator is us. As far as replacing the population, and I don't know exact statistics, but losing 10 28 inch females creates as much loss breeding potential as say one 45 inch female. I hope that answers your question.

[Dr. Bass]

Florida regs work real well

that's about all the proof you need

[Ugly Mug 2]

Sounds like a difficult balance anyway you look at it
Thanks harv

[NJAngler Bill]

Thank God for the striped bass because without them our "true" season would begin in May and end in October and I think I'd consider a move to Florida. I don't ever want those fish to go away like they did before. We MUST err on the side of caution.

As such, I feel that in practice, an upper size limit will provide very little benefit. Here's why:

1. If we establish a realistic upper limit, say 40" or 45", over which a bonus or trophy tag is needed, then everyone will get trophy tags and use them. Those that will release those big fish are the same anglers who will release them regardless of the rules. NO BENEFIT.

2. Then, we are permitted to catch two very valuable bass between 28" and 40" per man, which scares the living daylights out of me, especially given recent data, accurate or otherwise, that suggests those size fish are being overfished.

I would suggest that everyone take a close look at Guatemala Dave's proposal early in this post. Complicated, yes, but there are lots of merits. I like the idea, as long as those pre-spawn fisheries are catch-and-release and not "closed".

The big problem, I think, is that it makes little sense for NJ to enact regs that are substantially different from other states. This discussion needs to be considered coastwide.

[doyle007]

Bill, I think that an upper limit of say 40" or 45" would provide a real benefit, if a TROPHY tag, that is issued to each angler only once or twice a year, is implemented. Instead of a guy being able to bring in a big fish (40"+) every trip, it would only be able to happen once a year. That's a lot of big fish that are released. Even at the current C&R mortality rates, that's still a lot of big breeders that are able to release a lot of eggs.

As for Guatemala Dave's proposal, I think the idea of closing certain areas during certain times may have merit, so that the fish can have a chance to spawn. As far as complicated goes, that shouldn't be a criteria for management. Each person would have to know the rules, same as anything else in life.

[In Depth]

The problem with closing certain areas during certain times is mute do to the fact these fish migrate from other areas.

Example.
Fish coming into any spawning ground would have to pass through areas where fishing is permitted.
If a pre spawn fish is harvested before it reaches a spawning ground then what difference does it make then? It's still a dead pre spawn fish.
In order to protect pre spawn fish completely there would have to be a cost wide spring closure. Think about that and all it's implications for a bit. Where would all the food required to feed all these fish come from?
I do like the idea of the different size limmits and seasons dave speaks about , however if it's not adopted cost wide then what happens here is irrelevent.

[ 12-29-2004, 12:58 PM: Message edited by: In Depth ]

[TWIN D'S]

Getting the ASMFC to agree with regs such as Dave has suggested I think will be another hurdle. ASMFC is suspicious of regs they don't think are being enforced or adhered to. They can easily make the case that NJ has inadequate enforcement and therefore the state is out of compliance.

[In Depth]

I don't think what daves talking about has a snowballs chance in hell of ever being enacted no matter what we think. Cost wide there are so manny competing factors that it's mind boggling.
Geting evryone on the same page is something i realy don't think we'll ever see.

[Brian E. Mullaney]

i want less meat - more game

[JoeBlack]

Great taste. Less filling. :D

Ok, so what can we do to help the cause?

[Brian E. Mullaney]

EAT LOTSA STRIPER LIKE ME smile.gif

[JoeBlack]

:D

Striper loaf...combination onion loaf from tuckers and fresh striper cubes!!! tongue.gif :D

[JoeBlack]

oh well, looks like my image didn't work :confused:

At least we still have striperloaf :D

[MYNU]

I think that two fish at 28 solves alot of problems. What the cut off size of those two fish should be set according to the best spawning data that can be attained. That data will be coming with the increase of tagged fish and the data they provide. I also agree with the 1 trophy fish/year. I also agree that whatever is agreed on should definitly be for the whole East coast all states.

[Capt Harv]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I was interested to hear alot of opinions on this subject. The reason I posted this, was to try to get a feel for how everyone felt on the way striped bass are regulated. Alot of different management scenarios are possible for stripers. Discussions like these are like brainstorming sessions and often good ideas can come forth. I, personally, don't have any strong feelings one way or the other on a possible upper size limit. I am disgusted with the way we are dictated to, when it comes to fishing regulations. The ASMFC tends to ignore our input, but the technical committee of the striped bass board might be more receptive. This is where we could have some input into the regulatory process. I don't see that we have any clear consensus on this issue. One thing is clear though, alot of guys care alot about the health of the striper population, and that is the good thing. We all want to preserve the stock for many generations to come. My respect to all of you!

[KRAYFISH]

I believe Egghead is on the technical committeeor the advisory panel for striped bass on the ASMFC....Gene