Trying To Earn Every Dollar From The Sea: A Way To Keep Prices Up For Striped Bass

[Captblock]

State Seeks to Spread Out Season, Catch for Striped Bass Fishing
Source: Cape Cod Times

For a few weeks last summer, Massachusetts commercial fishermen landed almost 71,000 pounds of striped bass a day.

Unfortunately, their quota of 1.14 million fish lasted just a month before it was used up. And the one-month glut meant there wasn't enough time for restaurants and fish retailers to get customers in the habit of buying it.

"The way this fishery is ... you get pounded with fish so heavily, so fast, it destroys the price on it, because the market won't eat it all," said Andy Baler, owner of Nantucket Fish Co., a fish dealer and wholesaler in Dennis and Chatham.

The state is now proposing changes that it hopes would spread out the bass season, and give consumers more of a chance to develop a taste for it.

The commercial striper fishery is small -- about $1.5 million annually, according to state officials. However, for Cape commercial fishermen who have watched cod become scarce, tuna disappear and the dogfish fishery close, every dollar that can be earned from the sea is important.

Already to help extend the season, the state Division of Marine Fisheries has cut the daily limit of striped bass that commercial fishermen can land and limited the number of days they can go out. Last year, they could catch 30 fish and go out four days a week, from Sunday through Wednesday. Even so, the season ran just a little over a month, from the first week of July into the first week in August before the quota was met.

This year, the state hopes to extend it another couple of weeks by cutting commercial fishermen back to 20 fish and cutting the days they can fish to three per week. Also, for the first time, the state would allow large striped bass from other states to be sold in Massachusetts.

Striped bass migrate up the coast in summer and head back to southern waters in the fall.

Allowing striped bass to be imported from other states whose quotas open up in May, or run from September through November, would make it more of a regular offering on restaurant menus and in fish stores. The idea is that popularity would increase demand during the busy summer season as well and help keep prices up.

"We have a very abbreviated fishery here, and we're trying to find a way to increase the benefits to wholesalers, retailers, restaurants and consumers," state fisheries biologist Dan McKiernan said.

Dale Tripp, a commercial fisherman and charter boat operator from Chatham, likes the idea of importing fish from other states as long as imports don't drive down the price during the Cape's short commercial season.

However, he doesn't like the idea of reducing the catch by 10 fish per day for commercial boats, or another proposal that would ban charter boat captains with commercial licenses from selling the fish their customers don't keep.

Tripp argues that only a relative few of the thousands of commercial striped bass permit-holders catch 30 fish a day. Penalizing the few wouldn't lengthen the season much, just make it harder for the full-time commercial fishermen to make a living, he said.

Baler likes the idea of the imported fish but also thinks extending the season will make little difference. Cutting the daily limit, he said, might add only three days to the season. He thinks regulations are squeezing out true commercial fishermen and making striped bass a recreational fishery where fishermen are allowed to sell what they catch.

"Twenty fish a day will only impact the commercial guy who is good at what he does," he said.

[ 03-10-2005, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Captblock ]

[BLUEFINN]

We Grow Them They sell them! :(

[rubrbsct]

Originally posted by BLUEFINN:
We Grow Them They sell them! :( isnt that the truth... :confused:

[Bawugna]

This is a classic case of the market getting flooded, the price falling through the floor and the commercial guys getting frustrated by thier own efforts. It is a shame that they cannot see what is going on! Is it even possible that it takes an outsider to point it out to them? Perhaps that is the problem, everyone wants to get their fish to market before the next guy and then as the price falls due to glut, they have to catch more to make a buck. Very much like the Derby fishing that occurs down south and in the Pacific Northwest.

There has to be some way to get these guys to slow it down, take reasonable numbers of fish for an extended period and thus create the market, keep the prices high and protect the resource all at the same time.

I know that if an idiot like me can figure this out, there has to be some legislator, regulator or scientist who can do it too.

In the end, if things keep going the way they are, the fishery might collapse and WE (recreationals) will get the blame and take the hit :mad:

[Bluewater sportfishing]

Jim,
Well said!!
I love it when they say well the tuna are gone, cod are scarce and dogfish is closed, well what does that tell ya????? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: then they cry about not being able to make any money.if they would understand that to conserve would be to put more money in their pocket.
and now these "tuna wranglers" god that makes me sick to see that. Its no wonder our tuna stocks are going bye bye. :mad:

[Ken]

You just have to think that if a mojority of the commercial guys only had the foresight to see that the answer to their problem is in front of them then everyone would probably benefit. They are in a demand driven business, if you flood the market prices go down, if you restrict the market, prices will go up. If the demand increases (such as today's global oil demand), prices will go up. That would mean less fish needed to catch, less cost to them, sufficient stock to draw from, to make the same amount. If they over fished it in a month. Spread it out, lower the quota, mointor the catch reports, and perhaps a reasonable quota between recs and commercials could be achieved. It seems to me to be a matter of simple economics. Like the above posts mentioned - other stocks have diminshed for perhaps, and most likely, from poorly regulated management of that particular fishery. What you they need and the recs need is a reasonable stock of all tablefare fishes to keep the demand intact.

When I read about this I wish I was more educated in the commercial fishery business and politcally connected enough to help form policy. I'm all for a commercial business, but I can't help but think that better management of the supply and demand policy could benefit both sides of the issue and increase the overall stocks of many different fisheries.

[Captblock]

Capt. Jim, Capt Kobley & Ken,
All good points. http://www.binaryrhyme.com/ubbicons/thumb.gif I had to read this article 5 times because I could not believe what I was reading. I really feel bad for the hard times the commercial fishermen have been going through up north however if they continue to manage the fishery with the attitude that every dollar they earn from the sea is important. They will not stop the bleeding and the fishermen will continue to watch cod become scarce, tuna disappear, the dogfish fishery close, and the striper fishery may die a slow death. This article is a prime example it is not about the fishery it is about the almighty dollar.

Like Jim said, we will get blamed and take the hit. Man continues to manage the fishery so he can fill his pockets or earn every dollar he can from the sea. It looks like there will be more hard times ahead for the fishermen up north.

[Captblock]

oops

[ 03-11-2005, 08:39 AM: Message edited by: Captblock ]

[joey2boats]

Any of you guys interested in running for office. smile.gif

[reelinron]

Milton Friedman, a noted free market economist, used commercial fishing as an example of an industry that needs to be regulated even though he was against regulation in general. The reason is, it is in the best interest of each individual fisherman to catch as many fish as possible to maximize his profit. With each fisherman doing that however, the fisheries are destroyed. What commercial fisherman would voluntarily catch less fish and make less money to help the business in general? Government regulation is unfortunately the only solution.

[design]

Originally posted by reelinron:
Government regulation is unfortunately the only solution. SUBSIDISE!!

but then again, government has a way of trying to do the right thing only for it to go wrong

as I ripped from a web source...

Management measures have also failed from an economic perspective, since
they have not brought excessive fishing intensity under control. The
result
has been a vicious circle of decreased landings, lower revenues and
intensified
effort to make up the shortfall. In fisheries where governments have
implemented
quotas (seasonal or annual), the incentive facing individual operators
is to catch as much as they can before the quota is reached. They
therefore
buy larger, more powerful vessels, fish longer hours, and so on, to
outperform
their competitors.(4) The over-capitalised fleets which result drain
resources
away from other sectors of the economy where they could achieve higher
returns


nothing new, But the vicious cycle grows

[ 03-11-2005, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: design ]

[Libation]

Commercial fishing for a specified quota of individual fish is irresponsible.I befriended a NMFS employee in Hatteras 2 years ago. He had various responsibilties, one was an observer on the comm boats for stripers. He stated that they would make several sets,in the schools around OI,
and then pick the biggest fish to sell.The rest was considered bycatch and dumped over DEAD!

If the quota is 30 fish, it should be the FIRST thirty fish that come over the rail, that comply w/ local law.My vote is still no comm harvest, make it a Federally protected gamefish.

[CURIUS GEORGE]

These commercial fishermen have a GOLD RUSH mentality. Without regs, to control them the best of them will suffer like the greedy. They need to rethink the intire business. Our goverment needs to regulate everyone the same way by using the resource as there guide. :(

[reelinron]

Design, Thats where the "UNFORTUNATELY" comes in!

[sea robbin']

Along with better self-management, the commercial fishery is going to have to find a way to counter the junk science pooping out of PEW and the like. The anti's have the general public believing it isn't safe to eat fish. How are they going to "teach the consumer to like fish" under those conditions? As for seasonal(available species) fish consumption....what is new or wrong with that? Everyone did it for years before frozen spread it out. We do it with fresh oysters....

[Bluewater sportfishing]

what is it that you are trying to get across????

[Fishpicker]

Gentlemen I will be a better man and keep this short. { Provided that this doesn't get deleted like many other previous post} This will also be posted on two other sites VIA Cut/paste. {Go ahead by all means let the world see, and continue to make yourself look simple.}

The day that any of you can relate to a derby fisheries please by all means let me know. I have gotten my window washed so many times due to this derby fisheries BS. You guys need to walk in our boots before you can even post about how greedy we are. Why don't you take a good look around you ?????? You will all see a bunch of HYPOCRITES amoungst you.

So When Ever you gent think that you are man enough to fill my boots please by all means call, but until then. STAND DOWN and don't blame us for doing what the government has forced us to do. We are business men just like you but instead of Pin Strips we where OIL SKINS. Be thankful we do what we do for most of you wouldn't be able to eat a fish dinner if not for us.

You hate us because we are everything that you CLOWNS wish you could be.

" Cowboys like us sure do have fun chasing the wind racing the sun. " There is something for you to think about while your stuck in traffic this up upcoming week.

BTW while your in traffic I will be settin on the souther bite. Have fun and remember envy will kill ya.
Have a good week and think about good Old Fishpicker and friends While you Holyier the Growl sit in you comfy warm offices talkin $HIT. This is not a GAME or a HOBIE this is our LIVES. Please don't cast stones upon us until you have walked amongest us !!!!!!!

[Re-Bait]

Fishpicker you aren't even worth responding too, your BS is getting old.

[Re-Bait]

Wait here are some answers just in from the OHGNA...
"We chose one of the lowest paying jobs in America, and we deserve to bitch, moan, and complain Look agt all the money those "rich greedy bastards" have..." :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: ....

"Rec fisherman are a bunch of arrogant SOB's redface.gif so let's make sure we dis-respect them every chance we get"

"Let's stop all recreational striper fishing :eek: whatsoever, including catch and release, so we can extend our season, by 2 more weeks."

"And the heck with giving them any tuna allotement :mad: , they just underutilize it, and make us "suffer" till we can take it back."

\

[CURIUS GEORGE]

I'm not a clown! I also know no one is going to catch a thing if we dont stop this bickering. The only thing that will happen is the fish will be just our memories. Does anyone want to tell and not show our kids what a live fish looks like? :mad:

[CURIUS GEORGE]

P.S. my freezer is stocked. therefore I dont need your catch.

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by Fishpicker:
Gentlemen I will be a better man and keep this short. { Provided that this doesn't get deleted like many other previous post} This will also be posted on two other sites VIA Cut/paste. {Go ahead by all means let the world see, and continue to make yourself look simple.}

The day that any of you can relate to a derby fisheries please by all means let me know. I have gotten my window washed so many times due to this derby fisheries BS. You guys need to walk in our boots before you can even post about how greedy we are. Why don't you take a good look around you ?????? You will all see a bunch of HYPOCRITES amoungst you.

So When Ever you gent think that you are man enough to fill my boots please by all means call, but until then. STAND DOWN and don't blame us for doing what the government has forced us to do. We are business men just like you but instead of Pin Strips we where OIL SKINS. Be thankful we do what we do for most of you wouldn't be able to eat a fish dinner if not for us.

You hate us because we are everything that you CLOWNS wish you could be.

" Cowboys like us sure do have fun chasing the wind racing the sun. " There is something for you to think about while your stuck in traffic this up upcoming week.

BTW while your in traffic I will be settin on the souther bite. Have fun and remember envy will kill ya.
Have a good week and think about good Old Fishpicker and friends While you Holyier the Growl sit in you comfy warm offices talkin $HIT. This is not a GAME or a HOBIE this is our LIVES. Please don't cast stones upon us until you have walked amongest us !!!!!!! I just found this little gem. :D Clown? Maybe. :D Delete the post? When I see a post like this, well the 3:21AM post time speaks for itself. :D
You should review the history of your last accusation of post deletion. I believe the facts will reveal you simply forgot what forum you posted in and accused a moderator of deleting your post. Maybe it was 3:21AM that time too?? :D
I fully understand derby fishing BTW. I have a subscription to National Fisherman which I read every month.

[BLUEFINN]

Who rembers the days of the tide runner weekfish at brown shoal and brandwine light where one could sink a boat with fish? and nite bluefish trips to the bank where every cooler was full?

Jack King made a fortune buying Week Fish from So called Recreational Fisherman And The dumpsters a in Cape May were full of Big Blues and others were discarded on the GSP.

Who is to blame on depleated stocks? There are Slob Fisherman and Hunters and there are Slob Commercial fisherman! There are Sportsmen and there are Commercial Fisherman makeing an honest liveing!

I don't want to try and fill Fish Pickers Boots It's hard and dangerous work! I sometimes work on a gill netter and bunker fishing is no picnic! Where would we be with no eels,Bunker,Clam belly's or Sheddar this season? Corn and beans don't grow in cans and fish and crabs and the like don't appear on shelves;and Bait dose not just appear in B&T shops!

The sooner we are able to find common ground and stand as one and force regulations as one the sooner all will profett!

Oh by the way when Gill Netting Bunker A good many Big Stripers are caught and (Recycled) returned to the water,The politically correct term to throwing back a dead or dieing fish" Yet just accross the imagenary line that seperates Del and NJ the Del boys are able to retain the By catch and sell them!

Commercial fisherman are held to regulations just like Recreational Sports and those who do not play by the rules should be delt with,But don't condemn those who follow the law and only take what there allowed, There are some in goverment who love divide and conqure! as long as we find fault in those who are only harvesting what is allowed by law we are giveing those wath an agenda the ammunition to shoot back.
Respectfully Submitted.Mike smile.gif

[TWIN D'S]

fishpicker,

Are you an elected or self-appointed spokesman for your organization?

[Fred81876]

One day all the sports will realize that there are to many god dam stripers in the waters,and then it will be the job of the comm. fishermen to bring back the balance.It is like having 50,000 extra crab pots in the bays. I love to here all the striper "fishermen" talk about conservation when the American Eel is borderline endangerd because of all the "striper fishermen"

[Fred81876]

Twin D
Are your parents first cousins

[Fred81876]

Only kidding

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by Fred81876:
Twin D
Are your parents first cousins Good one Fred. :D Answer the question. Is fishpicker an appointed spokesman for his organization? Or is he self appointed? If he is a spokesman, he should have addressed any issue in this thread he felt needed addressing, rather than talking about pin striped suits. I have no idea whether any guy in this thread wears a pin striped suit.

[Bluewater sportfishing]

fishpiker,
all b.s aside I have walked in your boots and worne your Oil skins, that last comment you put up is retarded. The fish stocks are gone....
And we all know where they went. so quit with the holy B.S saying its the governments fault BLAH BLAH BLAH. it old and tired. If commercials learned to conserve then they would set the price instead of the fish market. Bring in fewer fish get a better price, Bring in to many fish and get a low price...when will they learn???
I will tell you when,, when all the fish are gone and they are sitting there with their thumbs up their arse saying well gee its not our faults. mexico is in the final stages of wipeing out a major blue/striped/white marlin hot spot because they are so greedy. I would tell you more but its not worth it. I know what you do and agree with what you do. but sooner or later there wont be any fish left for you and I until the fisherman step in and conserve(comm & recs)
and leave the gov. the f out of it.

[Fred81876]

Wouldn't that be the marine fisheries council.

[Fred81876]

Wouldn't that be the marine fisheries council.

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by Fred81876:
Only kidding Fred, I've been called plenty of names over the course of the five years I've been involved with the Barn. What you and others fail to realize is that I am sympathetic to the impact that derby fisheries have on the safety and markets of commercial fishermen. At the same time, I read National Fisherman and hear repeatedly that commercial fishermen are concerned with their image with the general public. Then, I stop in this thread and see what is printed here and I scratch my head wondering about the spokesmen for commercial fishermen. This site has over one million page views per month. And Jerry Frazier wonders why he has image problems??

[ 03-13-2005, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: TWIN D'S ]

[Fred81876]

Twin D
seriously,I wish I had not posted my last post in regards to you, I just can handle the sports ganging up on the comm. guys.

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by Fred81876:
Twin D
seriously,I wish I had not posted my last post in regards to you, I just can handle the sports ganging up on the comm. guys. Fred, no problem, I didn't take it personal. I was just breaking stones in this thread. But some guys who hold themselves out as representatives of their peer group have to realize that when they see a post(s) on the Barn, those posts represent only that persons opinion. He should address the posts that he feels contain inaccuracies. The name calling and what not only does him and his peer group a disservice.

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by BLUEFINN:
We Grow Them They sell them! :( OK lets get this thread back on track. We don't grow them, Mother Nature does.

The article mirrors the articles in National Fisherman magazine. Whether we like commercial fishermen or not, it makes plenty of sense that is a fish is harvested it should be used in the most economical way. In this case, we're talking about optimizing markets so the return to the fisherman is greatest. Avoiding "derby" fishing is one way to spread the supply of fish along the line of demand. It makes little sense to flood the market with fish thereby ensuring as small a price as possible. We gotta' keep in mind, a million pounds of fish will be harvested (for instance) it only makes sense to get as much for them as possible.

[BLUEFINN]

Originally posted by TWIN D'S:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BLUEFINN:
We Grow Them They sell them! :( OK lets get this thread back on track. We don't grow them, Mother Nature does.

The article mirrors the articles in National Fisherman magazine. Whether we like commercial fishermen or not, it makes plenty of sense that is a fish is harvested it should be used in the most economical way. In this case, we're talking about optimizing markets so the return to the fisherman is greatest. Avoiding "derby" fishing is one way to spread the supply of fish along the line of demand. It makes little sense to flood the market with fish thereby ensuring as small a price as possible. We gotta' keep in mind, a million pounds of fish will be harvested (for instance) it only makes sense to get as much for them as possible. </font>[/QUOTE]Twin D's My comment regarding We grow them they sell them Was a shot over the bow of NJ the only state that requires it't commercial fisherman to recycle the Striper by catch Im sorry but returning dieing or dead fish is just plain Wastefull and Wrong!!! The Delaware estuary is a spawning area and we do grow some of the biomass! My second follow up explained my first, I have real issues with killing anything that will not be consumed. Mike

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by BLUEFINN:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TWIN D'S:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BLUEFINN:
We Grow Them They sell them! :( OK lets get this thread back on track. We don't grow them, Mother Nature does.

The article mirrors the articles in National Fisherman magazine. Whether we like commercial fishermen or not, it makes plenty of sense that is a fish is harvested it should be used in the most economical way. In this case, we're talking about optimizing markets so the return to the fisherman is greatest. Avoiding "derby" fishing is one way to spread the supply of fish along the line of demand. It makes little sense to flood the market with fish thereby ensuring as small a price as possible. We gotta' keep in mind, a million pounds of fish will be harvested (for instance) it only makes sense to get as much for them as possible. </font>[/QUOTE]Twin D's My comment regarding We grow them they sell them Was a shot over the bow of NJ the only state that requires it't commercial fisherman to recycle the Striper by catch Im sorry but returning dieing or dead fish is just plain Wastefull and Wrong!!! The Delaware estuary is a spawning area and we do grow some of the biomass! My second follow up explained my first, I have real issues with killing anything that will not be consumed. Mike </font>[/QUOTE]I went back and reread the article. I don't see anything about recycling bycatch or returning dead bycatch??? Are we reading the same article?

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by Captblock:
State Seeks to Spread Out Season, Catch for Striped Bass Fishing
Source: Cape Cod Times

For a few weeks last summer, Massachusetts commercial fishermen landed almost 71,000 pounds of striped bass a day.

Unfortunately, their quota of 1.14 million fish lasted just a month before it was used up. And the one-month glut meant there wasn't enough time for restaurants and fish retailers to get customers in the habit of buying it.

"The way this fishery is ... you get pounded with fish so heavily, so fast, it destroys the price on it, because the market won't eat it all," said Andy Baler, owner of Nantucket Fish Co., a fish dealer and wholesaler in Dennis and Chatham.

The state is now proposing changes that it hopes would spread out the bass season, and give consumers more of a chance to develop a taste for it.

The commercial striper fishery is small -- about $1.5 million annually, according to state officials. However, for Cape commercial fishermen who have watched cod become scarce, tuna disappear and the dogfish fishery close, every dollar that can be earned from the sea is important.

Already to help extend the season, the state Division of Marine Fisheries has cut the daily limit of striped bass that commercial fishermen can land and limited the number of days they can go out. Last year, they could catch 30 fish and go out four days a week, from Sunday through Wednesday. Even so, the season ran just a little over a month, from the first week of July into the first week in August before the quota was met.

This year, the state hopes to extend it another couple of weeks by cutting commercial fishermen back to 20 fish and cutting the days they can fish to three per week. Also, for the first time, the state would allow large striped bass from other states to be sold in Massachusetts.

Striped bass migrate up the coast in summer and head back to southern waters in the fall.

Allowing striped bass to be imported from other states whose quotas open up in May, or run from September through November, would make it more of a regular offering on restaurant menus and in fish stores. The idea is that popularity would increase demand during the busy summer season as well and help keep prices up.

"We have a very abbreviated fishery here, and we're trying to find a way to increase the benefits to wholesalers, retailers, restaurants and consumers," state fisheries biologist Dan McKiernan said.

Dale Tripp, a commercial fisherman and charter boat operator from Chatham, likes the idea of importing fish from other states as long as imports don't drive down the price during the Cape's short commercial season.

However, he doesn't like the idea of reducing the catch by 10 fish per day for commercial boats, or another proposal that would ban charter boat captains with commercial licenses from selling the fish their customers don't keep.

Tripp argues that only a relative few of the thousands of commercial striped bass permit-holders catch 30 fish a day. Penalizing the few wouldn't lengthen the season much, just make it harder for the full-time commercial fishermen to make a living, he said.

Baler likes the idea of the imported fish but also thinks extending the season will make little difference. Cutting the daily limit, he said, might add only three days to the season. He thinks regulations are squeezing out true commercial fishermen and making striped bass a recreational fishery where fishermen are allowed to sell what they catch.

"Twenty fish a day will only impact the commercial guy who is good at what he does," he said. .

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by BLUEFINN:
We Grow Them They sell them! :( I see a discussion of prices and markets, which is apparently what you commented on.

[BLUEFINN]

Originally posted by TWIN D'S:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by BLUEFINN:
We Grow Them They sell them! :( I see a discussion of prices and markets, which is apparently what you commented on. </font>[/QUOTE]Excript from my previous post!

Oh by the way when Gill Netting Bunker A good many Big Stripers are caught and (Recycled) returned to the water,The politically correct term to throwing back a dead or dieing fish" Yet just accross the imagenary line that seperates Del and NJ the Del boys are able to retain the By catch and sell them!

Well aparently you missed this paragraph! smile.gif

I think you are refering to the main thread where as i was refering to my follow up post Which included the Jack King Comment I also wonder how many subscribers to this Forum fall into that catigory! I for one have never in my life sold fish caught recreationally!

[ 03-13-2005, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: BLUEFINN ]

[BLUEFINN]

And for the benifit of those following this thread this is my follow up post that i refered to!


BLUEFINN
Member
Member # 973

posted 03-13-2005 04:11 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Who rembers the days of the tide runner weekfish at brown shoal and brandwine light where one could sink a boat with fish? and nite bluefish trips to the bank where every cooler was full?

Jack King made a fortune buying Week Fish from So called Recreational Fisherman And The dumpsters a in Cape May were full of Big Blues and others were discarded on the GSP.

Who is to blame on depleated stocks? There are Slob Fisherman and Hunters and there are Slob Commercial fisherman! There are Sportsmen and there are Commercial Fisherman makeing an honest liveing!

I don't want to try and fill Fish Pickers Boots It's hard and dangerous work! I sometimes work on a gill netter and bunker fishing is no picnic! Where would we be with no eels,Bunker,Clam belly's or Sheddar this season? Corn and beans don't grow in cans and fish and crabs and the like don't appear on shelves;and Bait dose not just appear in B&T shops!

The sooner we are able to find common ground and stand as one and force regulations as one the sooner all will profett!

(((Oh by the way when Gill Netting Bunker A good many Big Stripers are caught and (Recycled) returned to the water,The politically correct term to throwing back a dead or dieing fish" Yet just accross the imagenary line that seperates Del and NJ the Del boys are able to retain the By catch and sell them!)))

Commercial fisherman are held to regulations just like Recreational Sports and those who do not play by the rules should be delt with,But don't condemn those who follow the law and only take what there allowed, There are some in goverment who love divide and conqure! as long as we find fault in those who are only harvesting what is allowed by law we are giveing those wath an agenda the ammunition to shoot back.
Respectfully Submitted.Mike

[mako6950]

Your same post is still on page 2 Mike, unedited & intact. So is Marty's.

[BLUEFINN]

Originally posted by mako6950:
Your same post is still on page 2 Mike, unedited & intact. So is Marty's. Thank you mako, I new that' and only copyed it foreward because Twin D"s seam to miss my point! or part of my reply?

[TSpin]

Gentelmen, I have been away from this site for quite some time. My observation is that nothing has changed and that is a good thing. Please no hate mail. Thank you!

[Bawugna]

Originally posted by Fishpicker:
Gentlemen I will be a better man and keep this short. { Provided that this doesn't get deleted like many other previous post} This will also be posted on two other sites VIA Cut/paste. {Go ahead by all means let the world see, and continue to make yourself look simple.}

The day that any of you can relate to a derby fisheries please by all means let me know. I have gotten my window washed so many times due to this derby fisheries BS. You guys need to walk in our boots before you can even post about how greedy we are. Why don't you take a good look around you ?????? You will all see a bunch of HYPOCRITES amoungst you.

So When Ever you gent think that you are man enough to fill my boots please by all means call, but until then. STAND DOWN and don't blame us for doing what the government has forced us to do. We are business men just like you but instead of Pin Strips we where OIL SKINS. Be thankful we do what we do for most of you wouldn't be able to eat a fish dinner if not for us.

You hate us because we are everything that you CLOWNS wish you could be.

" Cowboys like us sure do have fun chasing the wind racing the sun. " There is something for you to think about while your stuck in traffic this up upcoming week.

BTW while your in traffic I will be settin on the souther bite. Have fun and remember envy will kill ya.
Have a good week and think about good Old Fishpicker and friends While you Holyier the Growl sit in you comfy warm offices talkin $HIT. This is not a GAME or a HOBIE this is our LIVES. Please don't cast stones upon us until you have walked amongest us !!!!!!! I think this is a pretty decent thread so far, thankfully it has not gone overboard :rolleyes:

To begin, Marty, I know you are sitting back reading this and have not responded beyond your first post. I must admit that I would not want to fill your boots! You are forced to make living in a tough world of weather, regulation and Market quirks. No sir, I would not want your job, nor do I hate you, and I am definitely not a clown, I do not appreciate the insult either. I have praised your dedication to the resource and your apparent respect for the resource. You appear to have a decent conservation ethic. But you are a bit too defensive. Even you cannot deny that a flooded market does nothing for your bottom line, nor for the resource. You must catch more fish to make the run worth it at a lower Ex-vessel price. It is just supply and demand, plain and simple. Is it your fault? Not singularly, but the industry has failed to police itself and reduce the market flooding. Why would we have to spend a day in your oilskins and boots to understand Derby fishing? The evidence is all around us, in print, on the web and even on TV! I have read so many articals about derby fishing and have seen photos of the armadas waiting for a 6 oclock start, that I feel I can speak pretty competantly about it. Lets see, NF has reported that in many areas fishermen are seeking the end of derby fishing. In FL they want to see an end to the derby grouper and snapper seasons.....the reason.......too many boats are damaged and lives lost by fishermen being forced to sail regardless of conditions. They want to see the season spread out so that fishermen can pick favorable weather and the market will stay regular. The Bering sea crab fisheries are also undergoing a change from the Derby regime. The reason.......too many boats lost, too many sailors lost, and the market glut caused by the catch coming in all at once. If a CLOWN like me can figure that out, I am sure an intelligent industry insider who has had his windows washed many times can grasp it too. Your defensiveness is symptomatic of the problems your industry faces daily. It seems easier to be on the defensive about what you do.....feed the masses (give me a break, what most many commercial fishermen do is feed those who can afford it, just check the prices at the fish counter), than to take a close look at the way the industry works. There is so much resistence to limited entry, IFQ's and the like that you guys will probably never see better days. In every fishery where those measures have been put into play, the participants have made more $$ and the stocks have benefited. The fact is that you WILL be regulated, there is no escaping that. Would you rather have 100 boats competing for 1 million pounds of quota in a 3 week season, or would you rather 40 boats competing for that same quota over 6 months or a year.

One day all the sports will realize that there are to many god dam stripers in the waters,and then it will be the job of the comm. fishermen to bring back the balance.It is like having 50,000 extra crab pots in the bays. I love to here all the striper "fishermen" talk about conservation when the American Eel is borderline endangerd because of all the "striper fishermen" Fred, I love arguments like this! The striper is the holy grail of saltwater fish right now. It has been the most clearly demonstrated ability of the Govt to return a fish to decent abundance. The reason there seems to be SO MANY of them is that they have outstripped the rebuilding of the ecosystem as a whole. The prey species are still being heavily exploited......all of them......so it seems like the Striper is eating itself out of house and home......these populations have to be viewed as the interrelated members of a an eco-web that they are. You cannot increase the # of a "high on the food chain" predator while removing most of its forage. Think of it like this, If alligators were brought back...as they were.....while all their prey species were removed do you think they would have been as successful? Doubtful. They would have been starved out, would have canabalized, and would appear to be the only things living in the Swamps of GA, Fl and other states. The striper is no different. Your argument about the 50,000 extra crab posts in the bay is pretty shortsighted. What about in the period before stripers were pushed to historic lows? Back when they were very numerous. Was there a shortage of crabs? Sorry but that argument is simply a reason for the commercial fishing industry to get an opportunity to take more fish and to remove the gamefish status in NJ waters. Your eel comment demonstrates that you clearly have not been watching the goings on in the fishery management and population scene. Let me fill you in on what happened to the eel population here in the states and use Australia as an example of the extreme case. The glass eel (elver) fishery was initiated here several years back. The profit possible was very enticing, so good infact that everyone who could buy a net was getting in on it. Entire creeks were blocked of with Fykes and had guys running all over with dipnets and such. The fish brought about $350.00 a pound and between 300 and 400 elvers made a pound! Are you getting the picture here? The numbers of elvers removed from the environment was astronomical, substantially larger than the number of eels removed for bait purposes. The situation got so bad that all of the coastal states, except Maine, closed the fishery. You know there is $$$ to be made when people start getting shot over it....it happened more than once. :eek: Australia has not had the eels come back, it has been about a decade since their elver fishery collapsed. They essentially fished them to coastwide extinction and there is little hope left that they will return.

Bluefinn, Your points are well taken and you do make a compelling argument about the sins of the recreational fleet concerning the sale of Weakies and the like. However, that is in the distant past. The recreational angler of today is very different from the same guy of 20 years ago. As a whole we have a much more refined conscience, there are many who practice C& R exclusively than there are Meatmen like you, DDs and me.....however we take what we can use and treat the rest with respect. We do not make more money by tossing back dead fish because the next one is bigger and will bring a better price, Nor do we kill 10 individuals of other species just to keep 3 of our target. I know that there are some real pigs out there still, like those bashing the heads of Spiny Doggies, those killing skates and those who are selling fish on the sly and don't forget the few who take fish they have no intention of eating. These fools are in the minority today.........thank God for that smile.gif Oh, and any fish that is wasted is wrong in my book, those days of dumpsteres full of bluefish......I am so glad they are gone for the most part. The Bunker you catch are not nearly in the numbers of the industrial catch boats using the fish as an industrial product. There is only so much call for bunker as bait, and that is not a fraction of the call for industrial use fish. The main difference between the honest Recreational guy and the honest Commercial guy is that even in following the law and obeying the rules, the commercial guy is FORCED to fish more heavily to make a living. He has to make 2 extra sets to clear the boat payments, because the market is flooded and the fish he is bringing to the dock will not yield what they would have a month ago. I think some common ground has been found actually. We all know that we have to conserve, but the need to feed a family makes the commercial guy work all the harder....take more fish and hurt himself in the long run. The govt devide and conquer scheme is miserable, but there comes a time when an industry has to police itself and to realize that what it is doing is self defeating and circular. The one thing we can agree upon is that the Eco-Enviro-Vegan-nuts are our common enemy.

Picker and Fred, I will end this post with a question I have asked for 5 years now without getting a single taker (there was one but he had the wrong fish)...........Name for me a single Recreational only fishery that was brought to the point of overfished. For each one you come up with I will name 5 commercial only fisheries that have been brought to the brink.

[KeysKid]

Tarpon were slammed by the rec "sportmen" back in the day...catch em, killem, take a pic and trash em... :mad:

[CURIUS GEORGE]

I believe BAWUGNA wrote that the rec. angler of today is very different from the guy 20 years ago.

[Fred81876]

Why not allow guys to catch more striper,while they are so abundant,and have them ease off on fish like the weakies,that are not so abundant and at the same time create a steady market for stripers

[CURIUS GEORGE]

If you make Striped Bass a sport fish you increase the popularity of fishing in the area by making it availible to to more of the general population. As a result of the public interest you increase the income of the sport via charters,head boats and bait shops. This economic increase will get the eye of the political powers. The final out come will insure that both comm, and sport concerns will be enhanced. The public will need bait,fish to take home for diner,lodging, for stay overs etc. There would be a better economic reason for everyone to protect the intire eco, system. You need bait to fish, customer to buy, reefs to build,stores to shop fuel, repair shops, marinas,etc. Lose the resource everyone looses.

[TWIN D'S]

Originally posted by BLUEFINN:
Twin D"s seam to miss my point! or part of my reply? Bluefinn, I didn't miss any point of yours. CaptBlock posted an article about commercial fishermen and yours was the first reply;

quote by Bluefinn

We grow them they sell them

If you want to bash commercial fishermen, be my guest. I tried to get the thread back on track and merely said;

quote by TWIND'S;

We don't grow them, Mother Nature does

A simple point you took great exception to, apparently because I quoted your original post.
I have a firm grasp of the english language, and your posts in this thread seem to me to be in conflict with each other.

[bassvamp]

Hey Marty just remember when thos UMMDB need bunker-You're their best freind! LMFAO!

[RodFather]

Twin Mike had a good point about taking it private. Bassvamp where have you been? What's a matter a little slow where you come from :D Nice of you to make an appearance ;) I am going to lock this one down for now!