Small Boat Tuna......NJBill

[21OffShore]

I saw NJ Bill's seminar today and I thought it was very informative and it will help me alot in my pursuit of bluefin off the coast of Cape May this year.
I do have a question for anyone that I could'nt think of at the time. Do you run your reels locked up or with the clicker on? I heard people say both but I was wondering which works best with the lighter tackle that I will be useing, (Tsunami 25-40 MH & Charter Special). Thanks for the great seminar and the spreader bar/outrigger clip tip.

[BIGGESTJACK]

WAS THE SEMINAR ABOUT TROLLING,CHUNKING OR BOTH??

[cc19]

[ 02-20-2006, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: cc19 ]

[21OffShore]

The seninar was on both trolling and chunking but he covered trolling a little more in depth. I'm glad he did because that's what I see myself doing most.
I was hopeing I would hear someone uses the clicker with good success because theres nothing like the soud.
Why do I hear guys running them locked up?

[agita]

21, I was there also, good seminar! I know Bill didnt mention this but I think you would have the reels locked up especially on those with the lures with more resisetnce (the deep back ones with a bird or daisy chain or even the spreader bars).... the trolling would tend to strip line out while your moving even with a heavy clicker.

[21OffShore]

I have one 50sw and a 114hl that I was thinking of useing for the deep bird, that I could run on the clicker could'nt I? Do you think I could get enough out of the small lever drag to hold the smaller jets and cedars?

[Bluewater sportfishing]

If you are gonna be on the troll dont run the reels with just the clicker on. you will get a spooled in a matter of seconds,..plus you will miss the hook up and on top of that you will get a birds nest that will compare to a 1970's disco dancers hair.what you want to do is run the drag to the point where you can pull some string off the reel where its snug but not tight. at strike your drag should be set to around 12lbs depending on the line and leader. I'm sure that was covered in the seminar...when chunking just leave the reels in strike and when you see the rod tip wiggle just reel dont even take the rod out of the rod holder.(you have to use circle hooks) if you have to much drag on (while trolling) you will rip the hook out,
hope this helps

[fishingfever]

I agree with Capt Kobey's thoughts on trolling free spool w/ only the clicker on....

I did a good bit of inshore trolling the past 2 seasons and had my best luck locked up with about 10 lbs of drag set (and the clicker on). The sizes of fish on the lumps that Bill talked about today are in the 15-30 lb range and don't require too much drag to set the hook properly. Even with 10 lbs of drag, you still get plenty of that awesome clicker scream on the strike!

[21OffShore]

The reels I'll be useing are 20lb class and I'll be useing 50lb PP line. So the best thing to do is set the drag at 10lbs at strike and troll that way with the clicker on. Is that much drag set at strike going to hurt the the drag washers? What do you est your 20lb class reels at?

[Sir Reel]

The only time I leave only the clickers on is whe trolling dead baits, and we really only ever do this when targeting white marlin, although they get hit by all sorts of fish. Otherwise, lock it up to whatever setting you plan on fishing normally. This is why lever drags are so much easier to use, too. You can easily have slightly different strike and fight settings.

Just for kicks, when we do troll dead baits (ballys), we put the cliker on and set the drag as low as it possible without having line come off. When the fish hits, you hear it, and you drop it to free spool totally. Let the fish run for 8 seconds or so, reel in and set the hook and get ready for the game.

[NJAngler Bill]

21, nice meeting you and thanks to all who stopped by. The seminar was focused on "inshore" and small boat techniques, which can differ quite a bit from the way the big boys go about it.

To answer your question about the clicker...we use lever drag reels on our light tackle outfits (Penn 975LD) and these are typically left in the strike position or only slightly lighter than that. Yes, the clicker can be left on until the rod is picked up and the fight begins.

Please don't leave a reel in free spool with the cliker on, like you might while striper chunking. That would be "bird's nest city" once a strike occurs. Those speedsters are a bit different from other inshore species to say the least.

[ 02-20-2006, 09:10 AM: Message edited by: NJAngler Bill ]

[Barb-Boom]

Leave them locked but adjust the drag I use Shimano 2 speeds with lever drag. If a sail hits you want the lure to look as if its stunned for a second pick up. The same works for both in and off shore

[Bluewater sportfishing]

21offshore,
10 lbs at strike for 50 lb test is a little low, but ok because, there isnt any stretch in the line (braid) like there is with mono,
so when the fish hits,its a solid hit/hookup... it will run for a while....but it will stop, when it does then play him out.. you can also go a up a little past strike to say abot 14lbs of drag but only after you have gained back alot of line(the more line you have out the weaker it becomes)
depending what kind of reels you have will dictate when to service your reels. And yes if you hook into a 40lb class tuna this spring/summer and you have striper gear out it will smoke your reel.

[mastergaffer]

lol i know all about that.. had a squidder spooled this fall on the ridge just playing around with some mahi under a pallet burnt my thumb.

[Bluewater sportfishing]

lol!!!!! thats to funny!!

[21OffShore]

I have Shimano Charter Special (TR 2000 lever drag) reels I use for striper fishing. They are on the poles that I will be useing for for thid type of fishing. Are these reels going to hold up? They are new this year and would hate to toast them on there first season. I would like to get some of the Penn baitcasters but there a little too pricey for me right now. Would I be better off with a TLD20? Or will my Chater Specials be up for the task? Thanks again!

[Bluewater sportfishing]

no they will not.If you can, go with the tld25's
they are great for the small tuna and if it were to happen on the troll in the summer, bigger tuna (30-50lb class) I have taken plenty of 60-90lb tuna on those reels and still use them. but with last years insane inshore troll bite, wahoo's and white marlin were common catches for some people. you are gonna want a reel with some power.
leave the charter specials for the bass.
w

[21OffShore]

Now my next question is the rods I have. They are Tsunmi Trophy 7 foot MH 25-40lb 3/4-4oz rods. I think they'll be fine but a little input here would be great too. I have a few Diawa 80lb IGFA Tournament rods and Penn 50sw (free from my father) but I'm trying to go the other way with this. Sorry if I'm asking too many dumb questions.

[Bluewater sportfishing]

I will buy the 50's off you if you want to sell them. and there is never a dumb queston.
how many 50's do you have and what is the lenght of the 80lb diawa rods?
7 foot rods are a little long for stand up you would be better off with 5-5 or a 6 foot rod but the tsunmi are pushing the envalope. they will work...for how long? i dont know.

[21OffShore]

I don't think I'll be going any more than 25 miles out so maybe I'll be ok with the Tsunami.

The Diawa's are 6-3/4 in length so they say. And I think I'm going to keep then because I don't think I could replace them. The boat I have now is only my second one and I've only been boating for two years. When I do move up in size again I'll have the rod and reels I need for the big boys 60-80 miles out.
Do you think I could get away with the TLD20.I'm trying to stay as light as poss.

[Bluewater sportfishing]

yes the tld 20 will work just fine, if you have any tld 15's they are also nice for the light inshore, what inlet do you run out of?

[21OffShore]

none yet but it will be cape may mostly. My other boat is a 18 foot jetboat with a big block (river boat). My father had a 34 Silverton he used to dock it at light house point marina, so I know the area a little....what I can remember.

[Bluewater sportfishing]

25 miles will put you out around the east lump a very well known inshore spot for footballs and a hoo here and there (last year) also a few mahi mahi roam around there.
good luck this season
tight lines

[21OffShore]

Thanks, you too. Footballs on light tackle!

[NJAngler Bill]

21, don't worry so much about your tackle. Although what you have is less than ideal, you have plenty of gutts there to handle most of the fish you're gonna catch inshore - football bluefins, skippies, albies, bonita, bluefish, small king mackerel, etc. I've done it for years with that kind of tackle, and rarely had a problem.

If larger bluefins happen to show up on the inshore lumps, say fish over 40 lbs, you'll have some trouble. But that's half the fun smile.gif fyi...I probably caught a hundred bluefin inside of 20 miles last summer and only one was over 40 lbs. That may change this year, but you get the idea.

I happen to disagree with Bluewater on the rod length issue. Trolling for tuna with a 5 or 7-rod spread from a small (21') outboard-driven center console without outriggers is an entirely different, and unique, exercise. We've put a great deal of effort into refining our technique in this inshore fishery, and we've experimented with all sorts of tackle. The longer rods (7 ft.) offer significant advantages over shorter "standup" tackle. Sure, with the longer rods you don't have the leverage to pump a big fish up from the depths, but that isn't the name of the game here. The longer rods help us to control our spread, get additional width with the outside rods in the outrodders, and steer a fish around the outboard.

21, now that you're sufficiently confused, let me say this: This season, bring the tackle you have and see what works and what doesn't. Then, make your decision for next year. My guess is you'll opt for a bigger boat before you'll need bigger tackle.

[21OffShore]

Thanks for the reply Bill. Sufficiently confused I was, but I think I will just hold out and see what works, and come better prepaired next year. I was thinking of buying a few more rigs so maybe a couple bigger combos are in order. I like large mouth bass fishing with my trout unltra-lites so maybe this IS what I'm looking for.

Thanks,

[mastergaffer]

kobey i wasnt expecting it. those damn tuner fish. spooled 300 yards of pp just like that thank god i had 30 feet of mono on top..i had a spot about 4 inches trying to catch this mahi about 10 pounds or so under the pallet and i let the spot out of site and bam!!!!!spooled in a matter of secounds..

[ 02-21-2006, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: mastergaffer ]

[Marine Tom]

21, outstanding questions! In fact you must of read my mind because the input you got answered alot of my questions.

I plan on doing the same type of fishing you are, offshore to about 25-30 miles, from Cape May, Harborview Marina. I've been fishing for 30 plus years, but this is my 2nd year of personal boat ownership.

I did alot of networking last summer about offshore fishing and the TDL's always came up as a good value. I have a couple 7ft MH Lamiglas with Penn 975's, then a Penn Slammer with a 330Gti and a Penn Power Stick with a Quantum Cabo. Pretty much the same stuff/size as you?

Last year on my first ever offshore trip my Penn 940 Levelmatic was almost spooled. Burnt my thumb on PP trying to stop it. Lesson learned, I'll never do that again.

Good luck. Tom

[mastergaffer]

trust me burning your thumb will happen again them damn whites are tricky. always happens to me a couple times a year...

[21OffShore]

Mairine Tom, I'm looking forward to those fish that almost spool you on light tackle. It seem our tackle is about the same, 20lb class stuff. My reels hold 300yds of 20lb so I'm hopeing with some PP I'll be alright with all but the bigger fish I'll encounter. My main consern is the level wind holding being up to the challeng. I guess time will tell

[mastergaffer]

jsut remember when trolling with pp put a top shot of mono over it..

[21OffShore]

6-8ft right?

[mastergaffer]

i use at least 100 yards of mono on top of the pp

[21OffShore]

what knot would you use....uni-uni?

[mastergaffer]

uni to uni will work as will a blood knot

[21OffShore]

Why 100yds and not just a few feet?

[Bluewater sportfishing]

chaffing, the line will chaff and you will need to cut sections of line out.
so with a 100 yrds that should last a season.
njbill,
you hit the nail on the head, I somtimes forget that not all boats are inboards..lol, I had a problem last year out in the wilm. with a boat that had trip outboards, let me tell ya its a whole other matter with outboards vs inboards.
and with out a doubt the longer rods will have a big advantage over a shorter rod. I hope this is helping all the people that are going to be inshore trolling this year,
mastergaffer and njbill are bringing top notch info to this post.

[ 02-21-2006, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Bluewater sportfishing ]

[UP and OVER]

Question.......I run a 22ft Walkaround and I also use outrodders because I don't have outriggers, what is a good spread to use in this situation for small inshore tuna? I was thinking of running a couple of cedar plug daisy chains in the wash on the flat lines and using a downrigger or outrigger release clip attacked to the transon rings to keep them running a bit deeper, and on the outrodders I thought of running maybe a chain of Zukers, any thoughts or ideas, thanks guys!

[Bluewater sportfishing]

keep it simple,
the footballs will hit just about anything,
just run some purple/black feathers, rainbow colored zuckers..and some jets, again deep in color or bright, I have to be honest,I have never cought a tuna on a cedar plug..lol..when I run them off the flat lines in the wash I look down and say to myself this isnt going to happen, and I switch them out to jet or somthing to my likings....

[Phil Kozak]

I will remind you all that the small tuna 27 to 47 inch fish is closed and will only be a catch and release fishery. Do the fish a favor and release them properly. Don't just shake them off the hook. I use a large striper net and take time to remove the hook without hurting the fish and make sure the fish goes back with a chance for survival. Those light reels and rods will be put to the test with fish over 47 inches and into the 70 pound class. Everyone would best learn how to manuver the boat to land these larger fish. You might want to review the madman barta cause he has it down. I know because even with fifties we use the boat to beat the fish. There is a new game in town for the small boat and I hope you all have a great season and lots of fun chasing what I consider to be a true inshore game fish that tastes good too.

[Marine Tom]

21, I used PP last year when doing the offshore trolling thing, but this year I'm going to use mono. I'm not sure what the problem was I just didn't feel comfortable with the PP on the troll.

I may go back to PP someday, but I'm going to use mono for my trolling.

See ya on the water, Capt Tom

[NJAngler Bill]

Up & Over, Bluewater is right on the money, you don't have to get real fancy. Just make sure you keep your trolling speed up (5-9 knots).

Having said that, last season we saw a great deal of pressure on these fish on the inshore lumps and 20 boats trolling over a small piece of structure keeps the fish down. We found that the more substantial our spread, the more fish we'd pull from the depths. We ended up with a 7-rod spread, and we tried to make sure we always had several daisy chains and spreader bars out there, along with at least one bird/green machine combo, sometimes several. Although managing such a big spread from a small boat was challenging, it made a difference in the numbers of bluefin that we caught!

I would encourage anyone who is interested in this topic to attend Darren Dorris' Inshore Tuna seminar at the Bass Barn Seminar Series tomorrow (Thursday) at the Savoy in Vineland. Darren is a pioneer in this style of fishing and he's entirely responsible for getting me into it.

[Bob ECT]

Get yourself a very large net this year

[JackStraw]

We did very well last year running two bird spreader bars with 6" squid back 50 yards, two blue/white islanders with ballyhoo at 75 yards and one bird with small zuker feather at 125 yards. When the bite is on it really doesn't matter so much...but the bite isn't "on" a lot and you have to find a spread that works when it's a bit tough or you'll be driving around most of the time with limited success.

[Irish Wake]

Hi Offshore,I have 4 Shimano Charter Special TR 2000 lever drag,with 50lb PP,for the last 3 seasons that?s all I used,out to the 20 line,and for Drum,and Strippers in the bay,and they get a work out,the norm inside the 20 line,Places like the Cigar and east lump and other lumps, the average bluefin runs 15lb to 30lb,blues10 lb,F/Albes,bonita,the TR2000 works Great,3 season?s not one Problem with the drags,did get a 40 lb on the Reel and it gave me a work out,but that?s what it all about,them Reels can take a work out,Drum to 89lb,Strippers to 49lb,I also have Penn and Shimano 30?s,50?s,good for the Canyons,in side the 20 line other then Sharking,is like pulling in a Croaker with the big Reels,if you have money to spend,Buy Plane Cedar Plugs for your flat lines and Daisy Chains,and jet head feathers,them three things are Deadly inshore,about 75 percent of your catch is going to be,Blues,F/Albes,and Bonita,

[Irish Wake]

I forgot one thing,5in Birds on the front of the Daisy Chains,Deadly

[21OffShore]

Irish Wake,
Thanks for your reply, I thought I could use these reels for some light offshore but wasnt sure. I guess I'm just scared of a hookup with a "big" fish that I won't be able to handle. I'll have to learn to use the boat in the fight that's all. I am glad to hear there as durable as they say they are. I do believe the big reels are staying home, all but one I'll use for chance at a shark.
Thanks again and I hope I'll have good luck with the fish this year....maybe beginers luck.

[Rodney Miller]

inshore trolling..inside the 20 line..

30 class reel for your spreaderbar if you are dragging one. for the rest i reccoment shimano 20 and 25 tlds. little jets. NATURAL JETHEAD CEDAR PLUGS.

and heres the clincher

INVEST IN A DOWNRIGGER OR GOOD PLANING SYSTEM AND RUN A CLARK SPOON. youll be surprised what will hit them suckers, and they will get hit every trip. i promise

[ 02-23-2006, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: Rodney Miller ]

[21OffShore]

Do you have to drop your speed when pulling a spoon? Or is the standard 6-8mph fine?

[fmTuna]

First, I saw Darren's presentation last year and it was fantastic... I still have the handout he gave me and it is a great reference piece...

When pulling the Clarks in the spread I keep the same speed, but do add a couple fairly heavy drails to the line (never tried planers, but might give them a shot this year).... I use 50# PP with the drail and bead above a hi quality Ballbearing swivel attached to 4-6' of 30# flouro leader... PP has less drag so the spoon runs a little deeper, but a little whippier rod is a good idea to offset the no stretch of the line in case something a little bigger whacks it...

Great if the warm water has some spanish or little kings in the neighborhood....

Also, I LOVE making surface noise... I have at least 2 sets of birds out in every spread...

[Rodney Miller]

Originally posted by 21OffShore:
Do you have to drop your speed when pulling a spoon? Or is the standard 6-8mph fine? with a planer por downrigger keep the same speed as you would normally troll. but dont be afraid to expierment a bit, every foot makes a differnce

[NJAngler Bill]

Rodney, is your intent to put that spoon in the vicinity of the thermocline, or are you well below that?

[Somethin' Catchy]

The idea of getting a line or two down a little deeper is excellent , especially on those crowded days.
One of my most productive lures last year was a Green Machine behind 4-5 oz drail. It caught everything out there.

A few of the guys also pulled some deeper swimming plugs and did well. Try it all and see what works. Everyday is different.

By the way, who ever anchored that styrofoam float at the east lump last year-- thank you! It was a big hit.

[Rodney Miller]

Originally posted by NJAngler Bill:
Rodney, is your intent to put that spoon in the vicinity of the thermocline, or are you well below that? inside 20 fathoms i would start at the thermocline and then wrok up a bit, and if still noa ction dip below. Anything for a bite

[MyMistress]

I boated a 25" BFT last year on on old Penn 240GR spinning reel, with about 150 yards of 20lb mono on a 15 lb class ugly stick spinning rod, at the 28 mile wreck, which was trolling a nature cedar plug in the wash. Took another on a 9'6" ugly stick surf pole(cheap mans out rigger) with an old Penn 704 spinning real and 20 lb Mono(cedar plug). Certainly do not expect to handle the big boys with this light tackle, but quite a blast with the little BFT's, large blue fish, and the albies. This year I am going to try trolling stretch 25's, bunker spoons, and clark spoons down deep with my 30lb class Penn Jig Masters and Penn Slammer rods, and keep the lighter tackle up top. When I start loosing too many fish and lures, I will switch to heavier tackle. Until then, let the battle begin.

[MAKO19]

Rodney, I am guessing you had some luck with Wahoo as well this year? Is there anything special you do as far as swivels when dragging clark spoons? I have to admit these lures are DEADLY on our inshore haunts but they tend to really screw up the line on the reel. It seems to get all twisted and never lies straight after trolling a spoon all day.

Boy this thread is making my mouth water!! COME ON SUMMER!!!

[Bluewater sportfishing]

mako,
you need to use a sampo or a spro ball barring swivel.....mainline to swivel...swivel to leader...to spoon.

[21OffShore]

How far down will a 4-5oz drail take a spoon? Say at 6 mph, and 60yds of line out.

[UP and OVER]

What do you guys usually pull on the inshore grounds? I troll 5 rods, 2 flat lines, 2 on outrodders and 1 down the middle........I usually pull cedar plugs and small feathers and a gm down the middle behind a bird. I am thinking of changing up a bit this year. How do you guys feel about spreader bars inshore or daisy chains? Will bluefins hit spoons, i never caught anything but false albies and bonito with spoons!

[Bluewater sportfishing]

21offshore,
not sure how far down that would get you I have never used a trolling drail before. I use planers that target much larger fish. If I had to guess I would say 10 feet give or take.
up an over,
what you pull now should work fine, remember if you are at a spot where 20or more boats are...go find a new spot where boats are not that in it self will increase your hookup ratio. spreader bars and such are fine but bluefish are gonna tear them up. spoons are better for "other" gamefish. but will work on bluefin.
good luck and hope this helps

[UP and OVER]

Thanks Capt

[21OffShore]

What type of planer do you use, and do you use a special rod/reel combo for it?

[Bluewater sportfishing]

up and over,
no problem
21,
its a whole seperate deal, I would have to show how it works because I would no be able to explain it properly on the board.

[21OffShore]

Ok, thanks for your input.