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Saltwater Angler
05-30-2007, 09:30 AM
I scanned this article. Have you seen this?
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Oceans 21 is a death sentence

Posted by the Asbury ark Press on 05/11/07
BY KAREN E. WALL
STAFF WRITER

Have you ever had deja vu, that sense that you've done the exact actions you're going through once before?
If you're a recreational fisherman or any kind of fisherman, really then you ought to have that sense right now. And it ought to be accompanied by a distinct sense of dread, because what's going on in Congress right now should make every fisherman those of us who fish for sport very, very afraid.
I'm not the kind of person who looks at every cloud expecting it to hold a tornado, but after reading two-thirds of the oceans 21 bill that is currently under discussion in the House of Representatives, I see more than a tornado; I see a tsunami, and it's bearing down on our fishermen.
The bill, H.R. 21, is 125 pages long. On the title page, it says, "To establish a national policy for our oceans, to strengthen the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, to establish a national and regional ocean governance structure, and for other purposes."
Hmm. A national policy for our oceans. Excuse me, Reps. Farr, Allen, Gilchrest and our own Mr. Saxton, but isn't that why the Magnuson-Stevens Fishery Conservation and Management Act that we spent so much time debating last year exists?
To strengthen NOAA. NOAA needs to be strengthened? In what way? They don't have enough power to ruin people's lives and livelihoods now?
To establish a national and regional ocean governance structure. I thought that's what the fishery management councils that operate now are - regional governance, under the thumb of the nation structure of the National Marine Fisheries Service. Do we really need another layer of government, another layer of bureaucrats? Because page after page of the bill gives job titles with descriptions of what the roles are and how much they will be paid. (I haven't had the nerve to look for a copy of the federal government's executive pay scale guidelines; based on the descriptions, it would seem these jobs will have to pay well to attract quality people.)
And for other purposes. Ah, never was there a more vague and more telling statement. Because if you read the bill - and I did until I got to page 81, when I had to put it down to drive home from the doctor's office -those "other purposes" ring through loud and clear.
This is an extremist environmentalist's dream, and it hangs on two not-so-little words: precautionary approach.
Precautionary approach, as defined on page 14 of the bill, starting at line 16, means "the approach used to ensure the health and sustainability of marine ecosystems for the benefit of current and future generations, in which lack of full scientific certainty shall not be used as a justification for postponing action to prevent environmental degradation.
In plain English, fisheries managers would not be permitted to take a wait-and-see approach to anything. What, you have no stock assessment on porgies to say with any certainty that the stock is in trouble? Too bad. You have to take action now.
Remember the Warner Bros. cartoon where Wile E. Coyote is trying to launch a rock from a catapult onto the Road Runner? That phrase, "precautionary approach," will be that catapult, continually
collapsing on to Wile E. Coyote in this case fisheries managers and the fishing community at large and crushing any hope of being able to fish for many favored species ever again.
There's a second part of that double-edged sword, one that John Geiser has addressed but bears repeating: the section that declares an action can proceed only if it "(i) is not likely to significantly harm the health of any marine ecosystems; and (ii) is not likely to significantly impede the restoration of the health of any marine ecosystem."
Wait, you say. They're talking about managing an ecosystem, not a fishery.
And that's just what the extreme environmentalists and the proponents of this bill want us to think. But read it again: "is not likely to significantly impede the restoration ..."
How will they decide what is a "significant" impediment? Under the precautionary approach, anything that removes fish from the stock any stock could be viewed as endangering that goal, of restoring the ecosystem.
Oceans 21 is a death sentence for fishermen everywhere, particularly recreational anglers. Start writing to your local representative and tell them this is a mistake. I'd suggest writing to Rep. Saxton, but it's becoming clear he no longer listens to his fishing constituents.
Form letters about the fluke action last fall say it all. What would 5th-graders do?
Two weeks ago I spent about 90 minutes in the fifth-grade classroom of lrene Foret at St. Stanislaus Kostka School in Sayreville, talking with the students about what they've learned through their participation in the program Trout in the Classroom.
Some of their answers were what I expected. But there was one topic that gave me pause: Cannibalism.
The class had a problem at one point with one fish eating quite a few of the others in the tank, so many that it was putting the population - and the class' participation in the program at risk of extinction.
"Every time you looked at him, he had a tail hanging out of his mouth," student Nicole Kides said.
So they did what anyone would do if faced with a problem predator in their fish tank: They got rid of him. No more predation problem.
Makes sense, don't you think?
So why can't our fisheries managers apply the same logic to our ocean fisheries? it's a fact that spiny dogfish prey on every other species that's popular along our coasts - weakfish, winter flounder, summer flounder, striped bass, just to name a few.
Yet time and again they refuse to acknowledge the possibility that spiny dogfish predation is contributing - perhaps significantly - to the problems we're having restoring fish populations.
Instead, they keep pointing to striped bass and saying, "Look at our success with striped bass, look at how we brought them back by strangling anglers with regulations."
I wonder if they would've had such success with stripers if the spiny dogfish numbers had been as high back then.
Are we smarter than a fifth-grader? It sure seems like our fisheries management system isn't.

BIGGESTJACK
05-30-2007, 10:58 AM
The Mention Of Saxton's Name Or Immigration Makes Most People Run For Closets To Hide In Or Fences To Sit On.

Capt. Lou
05-30-2007, 12:41 PM
In their minds the spiny dogfish is not even considered a problem, but more a success story in bringing back a so called endangered species, not much unlike the Stripers.
The stupidity of some of these fisheries mangement personnel in truly unbelievable. I'm now convinced it will practically take an act of congress to let the commercail fishing for doggies be extended in one way or another.
Let it go the way it's going, they will not have to worry about fluke, weakfish etc. they will literally be eaten alive by an endangered species.
That's one fisheries crisis that we as anglers had nothing to do with.
I would love to know who came up with this one, of the three parties invloved which one do you think pushed this through.

( a ) Sports anglers
( b ) Commercial fisherman
( c ) Any so called conservation group

Like you stated if Ocean's 21 goes through , it's over for us! My generation will actually live just long enough to witness the demise of sportfishing on our coast! I stand corrected we have already witnessed the end of mackerel, whiting, cod ,for all intents & purposes Once all strong fisheries,now barely able to catch any of those species .

one eye willy
06-03-2007, 08:11 AM
this bill is NOT a joke and WILL shut down ALL salt water fishing! the bill was writen by THE PEW CHARITABLE TRUST and gives them control of who is on the board the makes ALL desisions! this bill supercedes ALL LAWS including the INDANGERED SPECIES ACT!!!! if you arn't a RFA member now is the time to join and be heard or we will be like most of Cal is now a NO FISHING ZONE! remember in Cal. they thought it could never happen!:mad:

seabear
06-03-2007, 12:30 PM
:eek: The importance of this cannot be understated. I've noticed that most Barners don't really seem to care much about fisheries management issues unless it impacts a species that they like to fish for, i.e. fluke, stripers, weakies.

Capt. Lou, it is not necessarily the stupidity of the managers as much as the laws with which they have to comply. And if the Eco-activists don't get their way with legislation they will sue the Federal Government in a nano-second! Unfortunately, they usually win.

To those of you who choose not to get involved just stick your heads in the sand and don't worry about a thing. When the Eco-Activists win the war we'll all just get new hobbies!:mad:

one eye willy
06-03-2007, 04:29 PM
:eek: The importance of this cannot be understated. I've noticed that most Barners don't really seem to care much about fisheries management issues unless it impacts a species that they like to fish for, i.e. fluke, stripers, weakies.

Capt. Lou, it is not necessarily the stupidity of the managers as much as the laws with which they have to comply. And if the Eco-activists don't get their way with legislation they will sue the Federal Government in a nano-second! Unfortunately, they usually win.

To those of you who choose not to get involved just stick your heads in the sand and don't worry about a thing. When the Eco-Activists win the war we'll all just get new hobbies!:mad:Seabear, it's good to sea someone understands what is going on and what will happen if this goes thru!:eek:

Sandollar's Child
06-03-2007, 04:35 PM
this bill is NOT a joke and WILL shut down ALL salt water fishing! the bill was writen by THE PEW CHARITABLE TRUST and gives them control of who is on the board the makes ALL desisions! this bill supercedes ALL LAWS including the INDANGERED SPECIES ACT!!!! if you arn't a RFA member now is the time to join and be heard or we will be like most of Cal is now a NO FISHING ZONE! remember in Cal. they thought it could never happen!:mad:

This is one of my greatest worries:mad:

It seemed like immediately the finger pointed at the commercial guys for this.:rolleyes:

The not so subtle plan is for the sports and the recs to feud amongst each other and with the commercial guys and then the enviro's get what they want:mad:

All fisherman lose:mad:

Sandollar's Child
06-03-2007, 04:37 PM
:eek: The importance of this cannot be understated. I've noticed that most Barners don't really seem to care much about fisheries management issues unless it impacts a species that they like to fish for, i.e. fluke, stripers, weakies.

Capt. Lou, it is not necessarily the stupidity of the managers as much as the laws with which they have to comply. And if the Eco-activists don't get their way with legislation they will sue the Federal Government in a nano-second! Unfortunately, they usually win.

To those of you who choose not to get involved just stick your heads in the sand and don't worry about a thing. When the Eco-Activists win the war we'll all just get new hobbies!:mad:

Agreed !!!! All groups of fisherman need to wake up and adress these issues.

one eye willy
06-03-2007, 04:39 PM
This is one of my greatest worries:mad:

It seemed like immediately the finger pointed at the commercial guys for this.:rolleyes:

The not so subtle plan is for the sports and the recs to feud and then the enviro's get what they want:mad:

All fisherman lose:mad: Sandollar, it's not just the rec.'s it will also shutdown the com's also! the only ones fishing off any coast will be the Japanise fleet they don't follow any rules!!!!!!!!:eek:

Sandollar's Child
06-03-2007, 04:42 PM
Yes I included the commercial guys in my edited post. My bad. :)

jc
06-03-2007, 07:29 PM
F--- them. They will have to tear the Pole from my dead hands!

egghead
06-03-2007, 07:44 PM
I'll try to um this up since I have been looking at this bill for a couple of years.

1) The idea of the new governance structure is to have a "higher authority" that can overide fishery council decisions. Of course it would be stacked with enviros. Enviros want this because they have very low impact at the councils.

2) I do not believe they want to shut down fisheries as much as severely restrcit them (even more so than now).

3) The real goal here is MPAS. But they will not say this because they know that it is a huge red flaf.

Who is uspporting this? The usual suspects....but what is odd is that none of them are out trumpeting it? Why? Because I think they area hoping it will slide under the radar because tey know that if the fishing community as a whole (or of r that matter, oil, etc) they would go ballistic.

Sandollar's Child
06-04-2007, 10:26 AM
I am really surprised that there has not been more response to this thread:confused:

gone_fishing
06-04-2007, 11:01 AM
I am all for conservation and a more responsible fishery but shutting it down isn't the solution. i will research this and comment later.

beber
06-04-2007, 12:58 PM
I thought this thread was about the new movie with george cloney and company where they rob casinos.

egghead
06-04-2007, 02:50 PM
This bill is not about conservation. It's about power. And it is written in such a way as to take as much power as possible away from fishery managers.

The lack of response I think is in part due to the forum it is in (might get better response if it was in dry dock and offshore).

Thankfully, this bill has a long way to go before passing sice a committee vote has not even been taken yet.

barnaby
06-04-2007, 07:42 PM
I am really surprised that there has not been more response to this thread:confused:

I sent my letters out already. ;)

roadkill
06-05-2007, 10:47 AM
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