New Structure for Bass Charters...would it interest you?

[Guatemala Dave]

we seldom get lucky to get into numbers of the big stripers that have been feeding in North Jersey the last few years. I personally target the back bays unless conditions are perfect so I am even more pressed to catch Large.

That being said I the main problem I have with this entire concept is that I don't believe that there should be any distinction between a charter and a private boat. I do agree that the captain and any other paid help on the boat could be eliminated from the boat limit, but the paying crew are "Recreational Anglers" and should be subject to the same laws that any other angler is subject to wether fishing from the beack, dock or a private boat.

As to half price if you can't catch the target species, that would never fly on my boat. There are times that the bite is on and everyone is worn to a frazzel with all the fish in the box desired in a very short time. These are the days every charter captain lives for and oviously would never think to cut the price even though his time and gas expenses may be much less than normal.

The SKUNK is one of the things that I and every other Captain that I know will do anything to avoid. When it happens I have used every trick and spot in my arsenal and usually spent more than my usual amount of time trying to put together some kind of catch. I've more than earned my fee and this is one aspect that I feel separates the Recreational Captain from a commercial fisherman who gets paid for the fish on the dock. If the fishing is tough for any reason I will discuss this with the charter group before the trip. Many times there are no options for going other days so if a decision is made to make the trip. I'll give them my very best effort, this is what I'm paid for.

I have long been a proponant of a true slot limit and would even like to see it taken a step farther with seasonal changes.

Spring Pre-spawn 1 fish 24" to 28"
Summer post-spawn 1 fish 24" to 36"
Fall Migration 2 fish 24" to 36"
True Trophy tag from the state for all anglers $50 (to be used for striper conservation) for a fish over 40"

[capt. carl]

James....
If you give up your office job to make 10 dollars per trip...i can tell you, you are not ahead of the "game"...just sayin bro...
Maybe i an not reading that part right but it is alto more complicated than making 10 dollars per trip??

[Capt Derek Fisher Price 3]

In my opinion this is just absurd. Ive personally been working on boats both commercial and private since I've been 15 years old. I am thirty years old now and have seen so many changes in the business, indFustry and fisheries. I am all for supporting catch and release but when someone charters me for a trophy striped bass and decides to take it home that is their personal choice. That is their fish of a life time and if they want to take it home wether to eat it, have a mount made, or just show family and friends it's their fish.
As far as setting a pay base for charters your delerious. A charter rate varies on how many people a boat carries, size of the boat and expenses (which are different for every boat). Also include bait carried, hooks, mates pay, oil, slip fee, insurance and all other miscellaneous expenses. What is their to really be made? I know I give 110% to all my customers no matter who they are and have no problem running for fish.
Also you based your price on trophy fish what about the guys who clam early spring and in the fall and normally don't see fish over 35 inches. How does the formula work for that.
I don't mean to start an argument, but as someone who has done this for 15 years and now owns my own business there are alot of factors that you haven't considered.

[FATMAMA]

maybe try a no fish 50% off your next trip and no bonus tags?

[Northern Ivy]

James....
If you give up your office job to make 10 dollars per trip...i can tell you, you are not ahead of the "game"...just sayin bro...
Maybe i an not reading that part right but it is alto more complicated than making 10 dollars per trip??

In the spring I fished 5 days a week; and 90% of that time I was fishing alone. So all of the cost for those trips is 100% a sunk cost. So let's say I fish just as much next year and I make some nominal amount on each trip; that nominal amount is less than I personally would have invested to do the same amount of fishing this year. Yes, this is not about being in business to make money; its about going fishing doing what I like to do (put people on fish) and have other people do what I hate to do (reel in fish). And guess what; the catch and release thing; my boat my rules. If you don't like it you don't have to fish with me; but let's say that the cost of a trip on chompers is less than a boat where you can keep your fish then it might attract the people I am looking to fish with; that is the idea.

And Derek you bring up a great point; the whole clamming thing. As some of you know there is a reason I like to troll; and it is because I am really good at chumming on anchor or while drifting. So I guess that would be another one of the benefits of the low cost; it would likely be trolling or bunker fishing as the whole clamming thing is not for me (and I am fine if people want to do something else that is fine; as you know there are some really good boats that would be more well rounded).

There have been some great ideas in this thread. I totally support a slot fish; my first set of thoughts was overly complex; and I appreciate the vetting from the group here.

It really comes down to this; I think this is a hybrid model of sort. As a business is really meant to make money (which this has no chance of doing); where this is more of a fishing co-op or cost sharing venture; hmmmm I wonder if a can make this (a non-for profit foundation.

[Topaz29]

Slot fish for everyone, including, rec, charters, boys and girls, women and children, grandma, grandpa
Very simple.

[Dakota Ron]

lvy, heres something l found on youtube from bob popovics. were these the good old days- never to be seen again unless we change our ways? l dont know... but if you wanna see something pretty cool fwd to 1:29:10 (yeah this is two hours long)

Glory Days of Surf Fishing Island Beach State Park 1992-1998
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0kf0L...eature=related

[bigblueman]

Just to chime in a little late. This conversation lost focus quickly and at the same time was not clear in its message. My man Ivy just was talking about a buisness model or pay for production or if you like fee for service billing models. If I want to compete in a saturated market such as charter fishing a different model is often rejected by its peers but it is usually these people who excel or even reinvent the market place. With a model like Ivy was presenting your revenue could increase however, I think for some captains he scarded them by a shift in profit vs expense. However if you cover your expense and mate is seperate and to use the argument of belief in captain, your gains could increase greatly. Meaning the same buisness argument about "Well if you don't trust the boat then don't go" could be argued "If you have skill trust in it".

All I'm saying is, as buisnes owner, operator, manager or otherwise you owe it to yourself (or organization) to constantly run numbers, see were improvements could be made and lastly "Think outside of the box". That's what I got from the initial posting.

[FATMAMA]

This program is similar to what big game guides use in the midwest. There are "fines" for taking game that doesn't fit into that properties management objectives, or the trip is cheap if there is no harvest with a trophy fee when one is harvested.

My own thought and please don't take this the wrong way because no matter how I put it this might not come out well and I don't mean it to.

I understand someone who wants to "fund their habit" by taking out some charters, but it does take away from those who are at it full time when someone is willing to undercut others prices and "be happy to make a $10.00 bill for the day"

It's kind of like HVAC guys that work all week and will change out a condenser for a case of beer. It does nothing positive for the industry as a whole.

I would much rather see a captain offer a free or discounted trip after a skunk or prohibit bonus tags if they want to limit their catch.

I have no problem with anybody who spends the time to get their license and invest the money to be in the business whether they do 1 or 100 trips per year. I do worry about the industry and those making a living though. Just my .02

[JoeyZac]

...........The goal was to come up with a trip that if you release everything you catch you are basically fishing for the cost to run the boat and ensuring that the mate is taken care.........

.........However if you cover your expense and mate is seperate and to use the argument of belief in captain, your gains could increase greatly............

If all a charter is doing is paying for the gas, bait, and mate, how can a captain make any money at all, let alone earn a living?

Or are you guys talking about some kind of volunteer program where the captain is donating his boat and time to take C&R anglers out?

[LedgeFever09]

OK, this is my last post on this thread. I get sucked in and kick myself every time...
I would bet that if a captain just "suggested" the idea of releasing fish after the box had a fish for each angler that maybe half of the charters would agree to it. And I think they would respect the captain and crew for conserving the fishery. But an uneducated angler can't be faulted for getting caught up in the moment and wanting to fill the box. I've been there and I am still there at times offshore. I take clients out all of the time.(I'm not a charter) And their experience is important to me as well. If one big bass is all we have for the day, then I would never ask them to release it. But if we are buried in stripers, I would at least make the suggestion that we could release some fish for tomorrow. I've done it and they have respected me for it. Not apples to apples with a paid charter, but I think most people would have respect for the future fishery if a professional taps them on the shoulder and educates them...not requires them.

[bigblueman]

I was just talking about revenue vs expense. Some markets need to have a flat rate keep this in mind. I just read the original post as a buisness model not a debate on to keep fish or not. I say you want it keep it if its legal whatever, individual choice. That being said here is an example (just spitballing on principal):

Average charge for 6hour inshore - 500.00
Captains true expense anticipated average expense(NOT SALARY, JUST EXPENSE) per trip: 275.00

What if the inshore charter was based on performance:
Minimum cost 350.00 for 6 hour inshore no fish caught (boat ride it happens).

Fishing for Striper 6 true anglers Limit caught (12 fish) cost for trip: 700 includes free fish cleaning.

Fishing for striper 6 true anglers 50% of limit caught(not even counting throw backs) 6 fish: 650.00

Fishing for striper 6 true anglers 25% of limit caught (Not counting throw backs) 600.00

Again just an example however:

A. I would pay for this it would entice me as a consumer
B. The captain based on a consumer like me just increased their revenue by a minimum of a 100.00 or max of 200.00.
C. They covered their nut with the minimum, heck even raise it to 450.00

As a buisness person it is a loss leader. The consumer walks away feeling wow the captain felt our pain for a bad trip too..... if its a bad day. Good days everyone is high fiving at the dock. In the end you could schedule more trips which would generate more revenue.

Now this market based on expense vs revenue may not allow for this type of model not all markets support all models I GET THAT. It is also based on the consumer. MAMA's idea of 50% of the next trip is actually very enticing too.

[OffDuty]

The Captain and mate can't keep a fish for their family? Half price trips when fishing isn't that good! and so on and so forth. You people have way to much time on your hands get a grip! ( and yes before you say it I already know Im an a hole! )

[RyanF]

The Captain and mate can't keep a fish for their family? Half price trips when fishing isn't that good! and so on and so forth. You people have way to much time on your hands get a grip! ( and yes before you say it I already know Im an a hole! )

Sure they can.

If they actually do the catching and actually do the taking home. It is fairly common practice to supply the charter with the captain's and mate's limits. Without getting into two trips a day, is that captain and mate really taking home two fish a day everyday?? Doubtful.

Either way I question both the legality and ethics of the practice. Obviously I am in the minority though, as the practice is a common defense tactic when someone questions a photo of 3 guys taking home >9 bass.

Don't worry - we are all a$$holes on this bus...

RyanF

[CaptG]

James....
If you give up your office job to make 10 dollars per trip...i can tell you, you are not ahead of the "game"...just sayin bro...
Maybe i an not reading that part right but it is alto more complicated than making 10 dollars per trip??

Capt, question for ya. Why are you advertising your boat as a 32 Blackfin on your website when the boat pictured (in all of them) is without a doubt, a 29 Blackfin? 3 ft of length, 1.5 ft of beam and about 7k lbs is a pretty big difference.