How far should I take my 23 cc? - Page 4

donzi and marie · 11-05-2009, 10:24 AM

Hey Rick,
By no means am i an experienced boater like alot of the other guys on here. I have a 22ftr. and my plan was to eventually get out to the 28 mile wreck. My girlfriend and i started going out a little further each trip. 3 miles, 7 miles, A.C. reef, then finally out to 15 miles. (all on picture perfect days) Went on a overnighter out to the canyons on my buddies 35ftr. Was a perfect day. Woke up the next morning to a rocking boat. 8-10 fter's. All i could think to myself was, if i was out here in my boat, we would be in a heap of trouble. Put a major scare in me. So with that said, i plan on investing in a EPIRB, life raft, ditch bag, etc. Also gonna start doing the buddy boat system. Believe me, i wanna get out there just as much as the next guy. Now i know there is is so much more to learn still.

bear 13 · 11-05-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donzi and marie

Hey Rick,
By no means am i an experienced boater like alot of the other guys on here. I have a 22ftr. and my plan was to eventually get out to the 28 mile wreck. My girlfriend and i started going out a little further each trip. 3 miles, 7 miles, A.C. reef, then finally out to 15 miles. (all on picture perfect days) Went on a overnighter out to the canyons on my buddies 35ftr. Was a perfect day. Woke up the next morning to a rocking boat. 8-10 fter's. All i could think to myself was, if i was out here in my boat, we would be in a heap of trouble. Put a major scare in me. So with that said, i plan on investing in a EPIRB, life raft, ditch bag, etc. Also gonna start doing the buddy boat system. Believe me, i wanna get out there just as much as the next guy. Now i know there is is so much more to learn still.

Donzi, consider that experience a gift! Your attitude is the right one.

Frankly, I am proven at this game. I had the fortune of a man that trully taught me much of it by example, in short, safety first also allowing me to make my fair share of calls, freedom to fail. (Especially as a kid - I just had to learn the hard way) However, I still learn a bunch on each and every trip even after decades of doing it. That is prolly a signifigant part of the attraction.

Never think you know it all and keep your mind open. Those books, magazines, seminars, and discussions can only do so much. This, like most things in life, need to be done to understand.

Ack, thanks man. I didn't know you knew..LOL As a friend I like to have you on every trip. As a captain I feel better and safer about the trips your on!

Captain Rick · 11-05-2009, 11:19 AM

Great advice guys, thank you! I am sure I will have more questions in the future, right now I am heading out to jig stripers!

David599 · 11-05-2009, 11:25 AM

your fine offshore if you are in a Tolman Skiff, and its a nice day. But yes get a good raft and a GPS enabled EPIRB.

carnivore · 11-05-2009, 12:47 PM

Yes... just watch/learn the weather.

I started off doing it in a 21' and I'm still here to talk about it.

Sandy · 11-05-2009, 04:16 PM

I think the quote was - " You Go to War with the Army you Have, not the Army you Want"

Fished the triple zeros out of OI and caught our first 3 Whites on a 23' Robolo with gas gerry canned to the transom and one old Evinrude. One of the best times ever. Caution is overrated.

BIGGESTJACK · 11-05-2009, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandy

i think the quote was - " you go to war with the army you have, not the army you want"

fished the triple zeros out of oi and caught our first 3 whites on a 23' robolo with gas gerry canned to the transom and one old evinrude. One of the best times ever. Caution is overrated.

not a very smart statement??

jc · 11-06-2009, 01:05 PM

I was out in my Mako 212 yesterday at the SI Ridge. I've been to 28 mile wreck a few times on days from 2-3 to 2-4 footers with a favorable forecast. From Avalon it takes about 1hr 15minutes to hit the 28mile wreck. Not bad. As long as you plan your days, know the forecast, and have a reliable boat your fine. The trip is not an issue and trolling all day you only burn around 30 gallons of gas entire trip.

Quote:

Originally Posted by donzi and marie

Hey Rick,
By no means am i an experienced boater like alot of the other guys on here. I have a 22ftr. and my plan was to eventually get out to the 28 mile wreck. My girlfriend and i started going out a little further each trip. 3 miles, 7 miles, A.C. reef, then finally out to 15 miles. (all on picture perfect days) Went on a overnighter out to the canyons on my buddies 35ftr. Was a perfect day. Woke up the next morning to a rocking boat. 8-10 fter's. All i could think to myself was, if i was out here in my boat, we would be in a heap of trouble. Put a major scare in me. So with that said, i plan on investing in a EPIRB, life raft, ditch bag, etc. Also gonna start doing the buddy boat system. Believe me, i wanna get out there just as much as the next guy. Now i know there is is so much more to learn still.

topazal28 · 11-06-2009, 05:58 PM

wow Paulie, Bob never replied to that coment!

David599 · 01-12-2010, 05:24 PM

I wonder what is statistically safer.

How many deaths do you see from people that go out for a family fishing trip in their Bayliner IB with single engine Ib, no clue how to close a seacock, or no seacock, or no clue how to operate a boat when the storm comes up (slow down), or how not to anchor from the stern in a seaway, etc etc,,, fill in your own story... there are hundreds of them...

but i wonder how many people die out in the canyon, in fair weather, and warm 72-74 degree water, as opposed to the guys that fish with marginal craft in so-so boats, say out blackfishing in April and the water is 54.

Id bet many more people perish in the cold water that offshore. I've seen some boats mackerel fishing in cold water, that I wouldnt want to be in in July off the beach fluking. I dont think it dawns on many people that the cold water kills them.

Anyhow, im just thinking about fishing. These threads come up over and over and over, and I also love the ones about "how NOAA blew the forecast" and the guys race out offshore, and have to beat their way back in. I know the guys with the 25 -50 ton boats arent beating teir way back in. The guys with the Center consoles and two or three large HP outboards are beating their way in, in as much as you'd beat your way in taking your car over three and four foot speed bumps.

Then too its amazing guys can live near the ocean and fish a lot, and not figure out what causes that afternoon SE breeze when the land mass is 100 plus, and the ocean water temp inshore is 65. its not the weatherman!!!

Anyway, I have no cause to start an argument, just posting to keep it interesting. Was actually reading some old posts. I'l say Ive learned a lot off the Bass Barn, met some real fine fishermen and other people, and enjoy it.

Now if the darn weatherman will just let a big high pressure come over New England for Friday and Sat we'll call it even.....

FishnCrisis · 01-12-2010, 10:18 PM

I have spent the last 5 years learning to take a 21 foot Triumph (great plastic boat) with a Honda 150 offshore fishing. My initial trips were short and well documented; wind speed, wind direction, wave height, ride comfort, and fuel burn. I added more safety equipment as I ventured further offshore with more confidence. On year 5, I ran to the canyons 5 times before finally trading up to a bigger boat.

Small Boat Lessons Learned - Leave a float plan with someone who will remember to look for you, remember to check-in with the float plan holder, take some sort of communication device that is proven to work (I use SPOT and test it from the deep on every trip), 2' to 4' forecast was my limit (because that means that only 1/3 of the waves are actually that size), cancel the trip when things are not within your limits, always angle into the waves with a small plastic boat (I used different launches on different wind conditions), do not waste time being greedy as weather windows can slam closed (we frequently stopped fishing after catching only what we could eat fresh in 3 days, which was often less than our legal limit), buddy boating is fun (two boat can cover more ground than one and you have someone to talk with in the case of an issue), learn to maintain your own equipment (if something stops working when you are out there, you may not have help to fix it), and leave the alcohol at the dock (you need your wits and the wits of your crew).

Many of my crew members landed first fish of a particular species on that boat - CRISIS II ... seabass, flounder, stripers, bluefish, threasher, brown shark, mahi, false albacore, skipjack, yellowfin, and bluefin.

In August we upgraded to a 23' Regulator - FINOLOGY in hopes of gaining 25% more fishable days and extending our fishing range. The jury is still out, but our first three trips were promising; bluefish, skipjack, mahi, yellowfin, and our first white marlin.

Have Fun ... and Be Safe!

tommymo · 01-13-2010, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishnCrisis

I have spent the last 5 years learning to take a 21 foot Triumph (great plastic boat) with a Honda 150 offshore fishing. My initial trips were short and well documented; wind speed, wind direction, wave height, ride comfort, and fuel burn. I added more safety equipment as I ventured further offshore with more confidence. On year 5, I ran to the canyons 5 times before finally trading up to a bigger boat.

Small Boat Lessons Learned - Leave a float plan with someone who will remember to look for you, remember to check-in with the float plan holder, take some sort of communication device that is proven to work (I use SPOT and test it from the deep on every trip), 2' to 4' forecast was my limit (because that means that only 1/3 of the waves are actually that size), cancel the trip when things are not within your limits, always angle into the waves with a small plastic boat (I used different launches on different wind conditions), do not waste time being greedy as weather windows can slam closed (we frequently stopped fishing after catching only what we could eat fresh in 3 days, which was often less than our legal limit), buddy boating is fun (two boat can cover more ground than one and you have someone to talk with in the case of an issue), learn to maintain your own equipment (if something stops working when you are out there, you may not have help to fix it), and leave the alcohol at the dock (you need your wits and the wits of your crew).

Many of my crew members landed first fish of a particular species on that boat - CRISIS II ... seabass, flounder, stripers, bluefish, threasher, brown shark, mahi, false albacore, skipjack, yellowfin, and bluefin.

In August we upgraded to a 23' Regulator - FINOLOGY in hopes of gaining 25% more fishable days and extending our fishing range. The jury is still out, but our first three trips were promising; bluefish, skipjack, mahi, yellowfin, and our first white marlin.

Have Fun ... and Be Safe!

How far are your typical runs? Does your new Regulator have two screws? What safety equipment did you carry on your 21' CC? How many was your your crew? What Equipment as far as tackle and fish storage did you carry? It seems the 21 would have limited space would love to see how you rigged it. Do you troll? I have a 23' Polar and I'm looking to make the dive to the mid grounds max 50 miles this year.

joshB · 01-13-2010, 02:25 PM

This discussion is on my mind, alot, as I own a 25 and have wanted to go for Tuna. The "shots" on the news of Somali pirates, over 100 miles off, attacking ships ,out of 20 fters.

Gives new meaning to "how bad do ya want it?"

I keep thinking.........

BigBassJim · 01-13-2010, 02:27 PM

If you only have one out board i wouldn't go past the mudhole.

If you have 2 than you can go a little farther.

David599 · 01-13-2010, 03:36 PM

Im trying to figure out what that means, since the mud hole is many different distances off the coast, depending on what part of it you are fishing.

so what if you have two engines, one big, and one small?

And by the way, for you guys with kickers. there isnt too much difference between a 8, 9.8, 15 HP. I saw a guy with a big heavy (Welcraft) boat, with a main and a 35 HP kicker. The purpose of the kicker is to give your boat hull speed. Your not going to plane on the kicker so even a small one will give you your hull speed. Which on a small 25 ft boat is about 6 kts. Turning up a regular small HP motor to high rpm isnt getting you anywhere really, and you'll probably be cavitating a lot and blowing bubbles.

If you have to go out and buy one, or want one, Id suggest a high thrust model such as they use for party style pontoon boats. The modern 4 stroke engines are pretty darn reliable. sure, if you get bad fuel or no spark or a bad battery, you may have an issue. I know many guys like to have twin motors, but on some, the one motor isnt enough to plane the boat off, so in essense they have a HUGE kicker.

Take a look at those slower turning big ass propped kicker motors. Think of your old beater and how you got your small tire stuck in the mud. then recall a rafm tractor, with those big tires that go through that mud with no sweat. Such is the high thrust motor. Much more torque. It will turn your boat into the wind and take you home.

thats my thought for today...

11-05-2009, 12:47 PM	#50
carnivore Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cape May County Posts: 781	Yes... just watch/learn the weather. I started off doing it in a 21' and I'm still here to talk about it. __________________ I don't wax or chamy, Member "Dirty boat club", Member "Been there done that club". Ban PWC and speed boats...

01-12-2010, 10:18 PM	#56
FishnCrisis Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lewes, DE Posts: 32	Pick Your Days I have spent the last 5 years learning to take a 21 foot Triumph (great plastic boat) with a Honda 150 offshore fishing. My initial trips were short and well documented; wind speed, wind direction, wave height, ride comfort, and fuel burn. I added more safety equipment as I ventured further offshore with more confidence. On year 5, I ran to the canyons 5 times before finally trading up to a bigger boat. Small Boat Lessons Learned - Leave a float plan with someone who will remember to look for you, remember to check-in with the float plan holder, take some sort of communication device that is proven to work (I use SPOT and test it from the deep on every trip), 2' to 4' forecast was my limit (because that means that only 1/3 of the waves are actually that size), cancel the trip when things are not within your limits, always angle into the waves with a small plastic boat (I used different launches on different wind conditions), do not waste time being greedy as weather windows can slam closed (we frequently stopped fishing after catching only what we could eat fresh in 3 days, which was often less than our legal limit), buddy boating is fun (two boat can cover more ground than one and you have someone to talk with in the case of an issue), learn to maintain your own equipment (if something stops working when you are out there, you may not have help to fix it), and leave the alcohol at the dock (you need your wits and the wits of your crew). Many of my crew members landed first fish of a particular species on that boat - CRISIS II ... seabass, flounder, stripers, bluefish, threasher, brown shark, mahi, false albacore, skipjack, yellowfin, and bluefin. In August we upgraded to a 23' Regulator - FINOLOGY in hopes of gaining 25% more fishable days and extending our fishing range. The jury is still out, but our first three trips were promising; bluefish, skipjack, mahi, yellowfin, and our first white marlin. Have Fun ... and Be Safe! __________________ JK FINOLOGY - A day well wasted. Big Water - Regulator 23 powered by Yamaha. Skinny Water - Lowe 14 powered by Yamaha.

01-13-2010, 02:25 PM	#58
joshB Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 689	Just an aside... This discussion is on my mind, alot, as I own a 25 and have wanted to go for Tuna. The "shots" on the news of Somali pirates, over 100 miles off, attacking ships ,out of 20 fters. Gives new meaning to "how bad do ya want it?" I keep thinking.........

01-13-2010, 02:27 PM	#59
BigBassJim Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Brick, NJ Posts: 641	If you only have one out board i wouldn't go past the mudhole. If you have 2 than you can go a little farther. __________________ New York Yankees!!2009 World Champions!! Jimmy... 23' 2008 Sea Fox Center Console."KrisSea" 11' Scrambler Ocean Kayak

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11-05-2009, 10:24 AM	#46
donzi and marie Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Port Republic N.J. Posts: 858	Hey Rick, By no means am i an experienced boater like alot of the other guys on here. I have a 22ftr. and my plan was to eventually get out to the 28 mile wreck. My girlfriend and i started going out a little further each trip. 3 miles, 7 miles, A.C. reef, then finally out to 15 miles. (all on picture perfect days) Went on a overnighter out to the canyons on my buddies 35ftr. Was a perfect day. Woke up the next morning to a rocking boat. 8-10 fter's. All i could think to myself was, if i was out here in my boat, we would be in a heap of trouble. Put a major scare in me. So with that said, i plan on investing in a EPIRB, life raft, ditch bag, etc. Also gonna start doing the buddy boat system. Believe me, i wanna get out there just as much as the next guy. Now i know there is is so much more to learn still.

11-05-2009, 11:19 AM	#48
Captain Rick Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 35	Great advice guys, thank you! I am sure I will have more questions in the future, right now I am heading out to jig stripers!

11-05-2009, 11:25 AM	#49
David599 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 561	your fine offshore if you are in a Tolman Skiff, and its a nice day. But yes get a good raft and a GPS enabled EPIRB.

11-05-2009, 04:16 PM	#51
Sandy Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: East Moriches, NY Posts: 6	I think the quote was - " You Go to War with the Army you Have, not the Army you Want" Fished the triple zeros out of OI and caught our first 3 Whites on a 23' Robolo with gas gerry canned to the transom and one old Evinrude. One of the best times ever. Caution is overrated.

11-06-2009, 05:58 PM	#54
topazal28 Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: brick, nj Posts: 78	wow Paulie, Bob never replied to that coment!

01-12-2010, 05:24 PM	#55
David599 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 561	I wonder what is statistically safer. How many deaths do you see from people that go out for a family fishing trip in their Bayliner IB with single engine Ib, no clue how to close a seacock, or no seacock, or no clue how to operate a boat when the storm comes up (slow down), or how not to anchor from the stern in a seaway, etc etc,,, fill in your own story... there are hundreds of them... but i wonder how many people die out in the canyon, in fair weather, and warm 72-74 degree water, as opposed to the guys that fish with marginal craft in so-so boats, say out blackfishing in April and the water is 54. Id bet many more people perish in the cold water that offshore. I've seen some boats mackerel fishing in cold water, that I wouldnt want to be in in July off the beach fluking. I dont think it dawns on many people that the cold water kills them. Anyhow, im just thinking about fishing. These threads come up over and over and over, and I also love the ones about "how NOAA blew the forecast" and the guys race out offshore, and have to beat their way back in. I know the guys with the 25 -50 ton boats arent beating teir way back in. The guys with the Center consoles and two or three large HP outboards are beating their way in, in as much as you'd beat your way in taking your car over three and four foot speed bumps. Then too its amazing guys can live near the ocean and fish a lot, and not figure out what causes that afternoon SE breeze when the land mass is 100 plus, and the ocean water temp inshore is 65. its not the weatherman!!! Anyway, I have no cause to start an argument, just posting to keep it interesting. Was actually reading some old posts. I'l say Ive learned a lot off the Bass Barn, met some real fine fishermen and other people, and enjoy it. Now if the darn weatherman will just let a big high pressure come over New England for Friday and Sat we'll call it even.....

01-13-2010, 03:36 PM	#60
David599 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 561	Im trying to figure out what that means, since the mud hole is many different distances off the coast, depending on what part of it you are fishing. so what if you have two engines, one big, and one small? And by the way, for you guys with kickers. there isnt too much difference between a 8, 9.8, 15 HP. I saw a guy with a big heavy (Welcraft) boat, with a main and a 35 HP kicker. The purpose of the kicker is to give your boat hull speed. Your not going to plane on the kicker so even a small one will give you your hull speed. Which on a small 25 ft boat is about 6 kts. Turning up a regular small HP motor to high rpm isnt getting you anywhere really, and you'll probably be cavitating a lot and blowing bubbles. If you have to go out and buy one, or want one, Id suggest a high thrust model such as they use for party style pontoon boats. The modern 4 stroke engines are pretty darn reliable. sure, if you get bad fuel or no spark or a bad battery, you may have an issue. I know many guys like to have twin motors, but on some, the one motor isnt enough to plane the boat off, so in essense they have a HUGE kicker. Take a look at those slower turning big ass propped kicker motors. Think of your old beater and how you got your small tire stuck in the mud. then recall a rafm tractor, with those big tires that go through that mud with no sweat. Such is the high thrust motor. Much more torque. It will turn your boat into the wind and take you home. thats my thought for today...