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Snakeheads, a problem, really?

20K views 186 replies 50 participants last post by  Ron Redington 
#1 · (Edited)
Can someone please explain to me why snakeheads are being condemned? Why are we supposed to kill every one that we encounter? I know that a lot of you will be quick to explain to me that according to Fish and Game sources they are an invasive species that will ultimately destroy all other forms of fish where they occur. I have even watched TV shows that claim that snakeheads are responsible for attacking and killing human beings. This is completely unfounded. I'm asking you to think for yourself and look at this issue from another side. Let me start by saying that when either I or you for that matter, go fishing the species we are targeting is an introduced species, just like a snakehead. The list includes all of my favorites (large and small mouth bass, northern pike, tiger muskie, walleye, rainbow and lake trout, and even bluegills. How can a snakehead be so invasive that it could eradicate all other fish in the same body of water? Yes a snakehead can live out of water for hours but it can not walk, slither or flop for any distance to the next lake. I have kept many types of fish in an aquarium including snakeheads, piranhas, arawanas, oscars, bluegills, pickerel, and even largemouth bass. I can say from my personal experience that the most aggressive species is a bass. When feeding any of the other species 25 feeder fish, any fish not consumed would get a pass to live until the predator fish got hungry again. With my bass, if he ate 15 of the 25 feeders the rest would be killed and left to float dead within an hour. Now that is aggressive. Put a largemouth bass and a snakehead in the same tank and the snakehead will be the one to give the bass a wide berth. A pack of hungry bluegills would make short work of a cluster of snakehead eggs or a school of fry just as they do with bass. So I am left to wonder what all the commotion is about. Now this is my opinion and I wonder how others feel. I have asked several people about this and I get the same answer every time. "Fish and Game says they are going to destroy our fisheries." When I ask why I get a blank stare. Can someone please name just 1 body of water that is now void of all other species now that we have snakeheads? Which lake is now deemed unswimmable because you may be attacked by these ruthless killers? i watched my TV in horror as Fish and Game officials from MD chemically killed every living thing in a lake where snakeheads were found. How many threatened species of fish, reptiles and amphibians in that lake were needlessly murdered over this which hunt? Why haven't they decimated all other fish in their native land of Asia? I have a theory that I ask you to consider. The people who are protesting the loudest have the most to lose. I will explain. There are jobs and money at stake here. People are paid to raise invasive species. People are paid to release invasive species. Money is raised for the right to fish for these other invasive species. Who will make any money on a fish that gets big, puts up a great fight and needs no help to establish itself? I have yet to hear 1 fisherman complain about the effort needed to land one of these top notch predators. Let's look at another example of false allegations and the truth behind them. In Spain about a decade or so ago a person released a few wels catfish. When they were discovered there was a wide spread campaign from Wildlife officials saying the same thing that Fish and Game is saying about snakeheads. The end result is that now in Spain you can catch a 9' long catfish and there are guides and tackle shops that specialize in catching them. All of the so called doomed species that were to be eradicated by the wels are doing just fine. Think for yourself. Raise your hand if you want to have an opportunity to catch a 3' long 15lb fish in your local lake. My hand is raised.
 
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#3 ·
Ahhh A thread from the Tin Foil Hat club. You have to look no farther then "down Under" & the Cain Toad to see why invasive animals need to be controled. BReeding is way faster then evolution. By the time our native fish evolve to being able to compete the snakehead May out breed them.
 
#5 ·
I agree with both examples stated above. The cane toad is a problem down under. The carp problem is very real as well. But there is a difference between those examples and snakeheads. The toad problem is two fold. Originally they were released to combat the cane beetles which were decimating crops. Unfortunately the toads are nocturnal and the beetles are diurnal so they rarely cross paths. The real issue that has caused such a problem is that the toads are toxic and can travel great distances in a short time. They don't have a check in place to curb their numbers, that is to say they have no predators. The carp issue is completely different and can't really be compared to snakeheads. True they are wreaking havoc, but not because they are eating other fish as the snakeheads are accused of. The carp are not killing other fish for food. What is happening here is that the carp, which are bottom or filter feeders, are actually changing water conditions. they graze endlessly on the bottom which stirs up the bottom and reduces water clarity. This may not sound like much but what that does is not allow light to penetrate into the water and new plants can't grow as quickly or even at all. They also eat the plants so the available cover for other species is severely reduced. In essence the carp are indirectly reducing fish populations by altering the water in which they are found. I know you can find people who have been injured by flying carp. That is a fact. Please cite 1 example of a person being injured by a snakehead. If you compare both of these examples, which are valid, with snakeheads I think there will be a different result. The snakeheads are not toxic and will have many predators to keep their numbers in check. They do not alter their environment in a way that would change conditions for other fish living in the same body of water as them. They could be compared to a northern pike in the same way that a pike will be the top predator where it exists. I know of no lakes that contain only pike. They too are preyed upon by other fish while they are small and still vulnerable. This would hold true of snakeheads too. Can someone explain to me what the tinfoil hat club is?
 
#8 ·
Invasive species and non native species wreak havoc on the native species and ultimately change the eco system. Some more than others....the list of species is huge, snake heads, asian carp, gobys, cain toads, pythons in florida, talapia down south, flathead catfish etc.....while the introduction of these species may not cause a complete collapse of an eco system you can not refute the fact that it alters it.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Can someone please explain to me why snakeheads are being condemned? They do not belong in our waterways Why are we supposed to kill every one that we encounter? They do not belong in our waterways I know that a lot of you will be quick to explain to me that according to Fish and Game sources they are an invasive species that will ultimately destroy all other forms of fish where they occur. I have even watched TV shows that claim that snakeheads are responsible for attacking and killing human beings. This is completely unfounded. I'm asking you to think for yourself and look at this issue from another side. Let me start by saying that when either I or you for that matter, go fishing the species we are targeting is an introduced species, just like a snakehead. The list includes all of my favorites (large and small mouth bass, northern pike, tiger muskie, walleye, rainbow and lake trout, and even bluegills. How can a snakehead be so invasive that it could eradicate all other fish in the same body of water? Look at zebra mussels, just like snakeheads, they TRAVEL. They are well adapted to acclimate far superior to what common game fish can. Look at phragmites. It can live in the harshest environments & its a huge problem in our wetlands. Because it can rapidly reproduce & TRAVEL. Look at milfoil how it has overtaken lakes because how quickly it is to adapt & thrive. These same principles & traits are characteristic of snakeheads Yes a snakehead can live out of water for hours but it can not walk, slither or flop for any distance to the next lake. Get a clue. Like WALKING catfish, their pectoral fins are jointed & they used them to be mobile. Youtube it. You'd be surprised how quickly & effective they can move. They have this feature for the sole purpose of moving between bodies of water. I have kept many types of fish in an aquarium including snakeheads, piranhas, arawanas, oscars, bluegills, pickerel, and even largemouth bass. I can say from my personal experience that the most aggressive species is a bass. All the fish you have named are predatory fish, they're all opportunists. This is a poor example. When feeding any of the other species 25 feeder fish, any fish not consumed would get a pass to live until the predator fish got hungry again. With my bass, if he ate 15 of the 25 feeders the rest would be killed and left to float dead within an hour. Now that is aggressive. It's instinct. Put a largemouth bass and a snakehead in the same tank and the snakehead will be the one to give the bass a wide berth. A pack of hungry bluegills would make short work of a cluster of snakehead eggs or a school of fry just as they do with bass. So I am left to wonder what all the commotion is about. Now this is my opinion and I wonder how others feel. I have asked several people about this and I get the same answer every time. "Fish and Game says they are going to destroy our fisheries." Because they can & will. Look at what damage they are doing to the Potomac fishery dude. When I ask why I get a blank stare. Can someone please name just 1 body of water that is now void of all other species now that we have snakeheads? No because you're getting ahead of yourself, it's too soon. That is what potentially could happen. Which lake is now deemed unswimmable because you may be attacked by these ruthless killers? This isn't RiverMonsters dude :cool: i watched my TV in horror as Fish and Game officials from MD chemically killed every living thing in a lake where snakeheads were found. How many threatened species of fish, reptiles and amphibians in that lake were needlessly murdered over this which hunt? Why haven't they decimated all other fish in their native land of Asia? In Asia, they are NOT invasives. I.e. Asian fish are NATIVE to Asia. They are not NATIVE to the U.S. I have a theory that I ask you to consider. The people who are protesting the loudest have the most to lose. I will explain. There are jobs and money at stake here. People are paid to raise invasive species. People are paid to release invasive species. Money is raised for the right to fish for these other invasive species. Who will make any money on a fish that gets big, puts up a great fight and needs no help to establish itself? I have yet to hear 1 fisherman complain about the effort needed to land one of these top notch predators. Let's look at another example of false allegations and the truth behind them. In Spain about a decade or so ago a person released a few wels catfish. When they were discovered there was a wide spread campaign from Wildlife officials saying the same thing that Fish and Game is saying about snakeheads. The end result is that now in Spain you can catch a 9' long catfish and there are guides and tackle shops that specialize in catching them. All of the so called doomed species that were to be eradicated by the wels are doing just fine. Think for yourself. Raise your hand if you want to have an opportunity to catch a 3' long 15lb fish in your local lake. My hand is raised.
You're a fool. You have no knowledge of ecology & ecosystems whatsoever. You have no idea how delicate fisheries and wetlands habitats are. I suggest you do some research before you formulate a ridiculous rant like this. Just watching an episode of RiverMonsters & thinking they should be allowed to be a game fish is naive of you. That's my opinion. Let me know how it works out when your favorite bass pond/lake is overrun with snakeheads & there are no bass left to catch. :thumbsdown:
 
#13 ·
Very nice :thumbsup:...we USE to catch brown bullhead catfish in the schuylkill.....although they were a pain in the azz and had very sharp pec and dorsal fins as well as an affinity for swallowing the hook....they belonged there....now small channel cats are unheard of and there are more flatheads than you can shake a stick at.....it was fun catching 30 lb flatheads for awhile....but it fades fast....especially when a body of water you grew up on and have fished for 30 years changes before your very own eyes.
 
#12 ·
Everyone can have their own opinion, but what it comes down to is no one is sure what effect the snakehead will have for sure. All we know is that the fish are invasvie and dont belong and could wreak havoc to eco systems. Its to early to be sure if they will erradicate all life yet.
 
#14 ·
Wow, trying to insult me shows a true lack of intelligence. I will not respond to name calling, if we were back in high school then that would be appropriate. If I am clear about the majority opinions here we should eradicate all non-native species in our waterways. Is this a fair statement? If so what will we catch? Certainly not Bass, pike, muskie, lakies or walleye. Why are they ok? I welcome all comments but please be mature in your response. Don't drink the kool-aid.
 
#15 ·
Wow, trying to insult me shows a true lack of intelligence. Yeah :rolleyes: hunting, fishing, bein an outdoorsman all my life, being a wildlife field technician currently as well as a biologist & furthering that towards a concentration in wildlife & fisheries science is enough of a lack in intelligence to lack the common sense it takes to know what an invasive specie will do in non-native waters. K. :cool: I will not respond to name calling, if we were back in high school then that would be appropriate. I'm just saying, read the facts before you open your mouth & bring it upon yourself If I am clear about the majority opinions here we should eradicate all non-native species in our waterways. Is this a fair statement? No, because this topic concerns snakeheads. Snakeheads only. Which are a predator invasive. Asian grass carp? Different story. Big bodies of water where they are wrongfully put, they are an issue. HOWEVER, small PONDS where they maintain invasive grasses, they serve a PURPOSE. Snakeheads serve no purpose in the U.S. If so what will we catch? Certainly not Bass, pike, muskie, lakies or walleye. Sure we will, why wouldn't we? They're there. :please: Why are they ok? They are game fish. They are acknowledge as game fish in this country. It's as simple as that. They serve a purpose in their ecosystem. I welcome all comments but please be mature in your response. Don't drink the kool-aid.

Oh yeah, welcome to the Bass Barn. :wave:
 
#16 ·
I just went to mahimahi's information source. The you tube information library and I must say this. If you took a bass that was raised in an aquarium environment and introduced a snakehead the result would be a snakehead sushi lunch. That is because the fish raised in the tank is acclimated to it's environment and sees every item introduced to it's home as potential food. i found others that show bass and snakeheads that were raised together living in harmony. Look it up.
 
#18 ·
I just went to mahimahi's information source. The you tube information library and I must say this. If you took a bass that was raised in an aquarium environment and introduced a snakehead the result would be a snakehead sushi lunch. That is because the fish raised in the tank is acclimated to it's environment and sees every item introduced to it's home as potential food. i found others that show bass and snakeheads that were raised together living in harmony. Look it up.

How would you feel about introducing siberian tigers into the north east woods?.....although on a different scale....its not much different in theory, and thats where your pushing a rope here.....your going to get nowhere, if you want to find out where the folks on the barn stand....start a pole and let the numbers decide.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for proving a point that the wild & captivity are COMPLETELY different environments. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

What you see in captivity does not automatically mean that's how it exists in nature. :rolleyes:
 
#19 ·
Maybe its best not to condemn someone for an opinion. Ann gler made a good argument. But I think that the information that its based on may be corrupt.
Anyway the snakehead is a predator from another ecosystem where there are predators and prey to keep them in check. Its not just fish -vs- snakehead. But snakehead eating the frogs, crayfish, bugs,etc.... that other fish are eating. As far as the carp goes in the south. They will eventually put themselves in check by ruining the water and loosing there food source. Unfortunately all the fish in the system might be done by that time. Snakeheads are here to stay. Once they got out of a small pond that could be poisoned they become uncontrollable. It doesn't hurt to eat everyone you catch. Maybe the best bet is to post all the snakehead recipe's you can find.
 
#20 ·
There is no reason for forming opinions or guessing what might happen. Science has proven what happens when invasive animals are released in estabished Eco systems. Arguing this really shows you have no grasp of our wildlife environment. Scary
 
#23 ·
I can see that there are some strong opinions out there. I am not sure why people want to compare snakeheads to weeds, muscles, toads or even tigers? What I am not seeing in any of the posts is why it was ok to introduce all of the invasive species to our waterways? By your line of thinking that should have never happened. Where were the protests against pike, bass, etc, etc, etc. Please don't compare snakeheads to anything other than what they are, a game species as foreign as any you covet. For my new friend "b *** *** *** in", typing in bold letters does not make your strong opinion any more valid than mine. No one has been able to tell me why certain invasive are ok and snakeheads are not. As a little research will show, if you look at almost any animal you can name, it has over time migrated from somewhere else and adapted to become a part of it's new ecosystem. This is all part of natural selection. Really, here is an analogy to ponder. Not a single person reading this post is actually from here, now are we? Our ancestors were from a "foreign" country and we traveled to North America. It is a fact that the white man displaced the "native" red people. We were a lot more brutal to the Indians than any you-tube snakehead video eating anything. By the majority opinion shown on this post, you should all be shot so that the true native species can thrive in peace without any pressure from you I do not subscribe to this analogy, and I am glad my non-native ancestors traveled thousands of mile across the Atlantic Ocean to establish a self sustaining population. I merely post it to make a point or at least to make people think from another angle. So please keep the responses on topic. If someone can differentiate why pike ,muskies, bass, lakies, rainbows, walleye, bluegills, crappie.................(all introduced according Fish and Game) are ok, please inform me.
 
#24 ·
I can see that there are some strong opinions out there. I am not sure why people want to compare snakeheads to weeds, muscles, toads or even tigers? What I am not seeing in any of the posts is why it was ok to introduce all of the invasive species to our waterways? By your line of thinking that should have never happened. Where were the protests against pike, bass, etc, etc, etc. Please don't compare snakeheads to anything other than what they are, a game species as foreign as any you covet. For my new friend "b *** *** *** in", typing in bold letters does not make your strong opinion any more valid than mine. No one has been able to tell me why certain invasive are ok and snakeheads are not. As a little research will show, if you look at almost any animal you can name, it has over time migrated from somewhere else and adapted to become a part of it's new ecosystem. This is all part of natural selection. Really, here is an analogy to ponder. Not a single person reading this post is actually from here, now are we? Our ancestors were from a "foreign" country and we traveled to North America. It is a fact that the white man displaced the "native" red people. We were a lot more brutal to the Indians than any you-tube snakehead video eating anything. By the majority opinion shown on this post, you should all be shot so that the true native species can thrive in peace without any pressure from you I do not subscribe to this analogy, and I am glad my non-native ancestors traveled thousands of mile across the Atlantic Ocean to establish a self sustaining population. I merely post it to make a point or at least to make people think from another angle. So please keep the responses on topic. If someone can differentiate why pike ,muskies, bass, lakies, rainbows, walleye, bluegills, crappie.................(all introduced according Fish and Game) are ok, please inform me.

follow the money my friend.... bass boats....tournys worth big bucks.... tv shows...etc
 
#30 · (Edited)
Please you-tube "Scott Broom Invasive species." It is an interesting video that proves my point. Look at the smiles on the angler's faces and tell me how upset they are. As for my credentials, I am an avid outdoors man and have spent 30 plus years fishing in NJ and internationally. I studied biology in college, but i figured I could make a better living in another field. I have earned several certificates of merritt regarding my catches. If it swims, I have caught it. I read extensively about our introduced/invasive species of fish. I have participated in wildlife studies. I can identify any reptile,amphibian, bird or mammal found in NJ. I can ID any frog found here by sight or by call. I can ID all of the Gamefish found in NJ. I have reproduced several threatened species of reptiles over the years. I have kept and studied many native, introduced, and invasive species. I have owned snake heads as well as bass, pickerel, sunnies, and others. I explored almost all of our State Parks and the majority of lakes, rivers. and ocean out to 100 plus miles. I have seen firsthand how our ecosystem is thriving and how some unrelated invasives are negatively impacting the landscape. I have hundreds if not thousands of hours in the field observing. I do however, try to treat each situation differently. You can not compare tigers, toads or plants to snakeheads. I'm still waiting for that explanation differentiating snakeheads from our fish. Yes they can survive out of water for hours but only if the stay wet. They can move on land but not as good as a walking catfish. their diets are identical. their reproduction is similar. they all get predated upon. There will be a balance to stop them from eating everything else.
 
#32 · (Edited)
bassassin8 drew first blood. Why not scold him too? Your statement regarding the lifestyle of snakeheads is quite descriptive but you can substitute the word snakehead with any of our beloved invassive fish as they have the same diet. The state is still stocking invassive fish every year so maybe we should petition them to stop. As to the statement saying that we were the same as the natives we conquered here, I say this. They had sticks and stones and we had guns and cannons. Hardly an equal fight. What's good for me is good enough for snakeheads.
 
#34 ·
bassassin8 drew first blood. Why not scold him too? Your statement regarding the lifestyle of snakeheads is quite descriptive but you can substitute the word snakehead with any of our beloved invassive fish as they have the same diet. The state is still stocking invassive fish every year so maybe we should petition them to stop. As to the statement saying that we were the same as the natives we conquered here, I say this. They had stick and stones and we had guns and cannons. Hardly an equal fight. What's good for me is good enough for snakeheads.

Dude, I swear you must be an anti or an incredibly mislead & unguided individual. As mentioned (thank you to the dude who did), everything I put in bold were responses after statements you made. A way of differentiating my comments from yours. That was not me trying to put what I said over your opinions. That was me separating your comments from mine.

And quite honestly, I don't know how your going to say someone should "scold" me. I've merely provided factual information based off of science & personal experience. I'm sorry I'm making you look like a fool at your own game when I have the information to back up the reality of what damage they can do.

Oh yea, & I can substitute snakehead for any invasive fish since they have the same diet, eh? Let me know when you see a GRASS carp eat a largemouth & when a snakehead makes itself a salad. :rolleyes:


Keep digging yourself a deeper hole. :cool:
 
#39 ·
Psssst.....it wasnt the fish...I agree, they are an introduced species and dont belong.....urban sprawl and the the run off water getting too warm running over parking lots and the creeks getting too warm were the brokkies demise....they were not out competed for food....water quality and temp is the main issue.
 
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