Now that I've been told it's a waste of time, I'm never going to do it again.
Now that I've been told it's a waste of time, I'm never going to do it again.
I love this site so lets support sponsers.
Last edited by mcmillan; 04-12-2010 at 01:29 AM.
Bad times have a scientific value. These are occasions a good learner would not miss.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
That is a great way to put it Kobey. I think as a charter Capt you hit the nail on the head there. I love fishing, and I fish all the time. My favorite is popping and jigging for tuna. But guess what I also troll to find fish to jig for them, at times I'll put out a live bait to get something to hit.
Its fishing boys relax out there and dont get to worked up and over analytical. Use what works whether its gear or method.
I said much earlier that I think the thread could have been worded differently. I believe the original 'idea' and I'm not a mind reader was, "whats the big Deal". It is a big deal because as we have seen over the past two months or so you see reports that the fish are "jumping in the boat" , and they are, just read the offshore forum.
As far as bashing goes I do not directly attack an advertiser on this or any forum. If someone comes along and says that I have outdated products and that "everyone" is going to the supposedly "newer" tackle and that it is better, I simply say, no it's not.
Here are a few of the claims that I have heard, and probably forgot many of them; I will not mention names, but anyone here can feel free to mention my name.
A person goes to a destination where the fish are jumping in the boat. I believe that if they had my "outdated" tackle they would have caught fish as well. They could have then stuck the rod in their mouth, hugged the fish and yelled, "hey mom, look at me!" Bragging about catching fish when there are "hundreds if not thousands beneath the boat" [a reputal captains words on this very site] is a joke and real professional fisherman would not do this.
My first comments were that I would talk about rods. I have been designing rods for thirty years. For professionals and amatuers. Here is what I have witnessed since around the mid eighties. Every few years someone comes along and makes a claim that they have a new graphite material. They are the only ones with this secret material.
Two-five years later, another secret material comes along. The fact is tell them you have a secret, and they fall for it, they always do, and hey, if they can afford it, dont beat him up, let him spend his money. Any factory in WeiHai China can build a jig rod for PEANUTS that has the latest technology,the latest bling, ant color/complicated wraps etc, and when it's all said and done, it still comes from China, Korea, Taiwan, India, etc.
IN fact I know one factory that will put the Kevlar wrap that looks cool on the base for an extra $1.88. That relates to about an extra $70 retail, or out of YOUr POCKET. Go ahead spend $300-500 on this stuff.
Many of the following facts are not undersdtood by the consumer. That is rods that are being sold for $300-500 have inferior epoxy work. I'm not making this up, just look at them. Then along comes someone and says that they are better than American made custom rods. Does everyone here believe that?
I have seen on several posts rod failure. Rods breaking, guides failing, etc. Most believe that rod failure is due to the rods being used improperly.
High sticking the most common. I have seen photo's of someone bending a rod from the tip,back in the direction of the butt. This simulates high sticking. If I saw someone doing this I would tell them that the rod is not designed to pull counter to the grain of the fibers. I know this, the guy bending the rod that way does not. I could never figure out why a person selling rods would demonstrate them in this way. It's simply asking for trouble, and the rods are in fact breaking. In fact I had heard one brand is having a major recall. I thought this stuff was tested? It should have been.
I have seen a good number of these rods with the wrong guides and the wrong guide placement. Here's the best one. Look at the photos of the guys showing off with the spin reels. Say what you would like but the wrong size guides and placement could not be anymore evident. There is one brand that uses a 30mm gathering guide, followed by a 20 16 12 12. I believe these are being recalled as well. This "advanced" equipment is designed by someone that knows nothing about rod design and this is proof of it. Large spin reels with 60-80 mm spools, 80mm + rotors require a different guide arrangement. But the guys who design this tackle dont even know simple design principles.
I know a rod company that brags that their rod is lighter by eliminating certain items to save weight, and then add items that weigh more, then go to the consumer and say, it's lighter. Am I making this up?
I could go on, but the stuff coming out of the "Far East" is not better. It is in fact way overprised, and inferior. There are a good number of flaws, and I will not reveal them all and teach the other guys how to do it right. Like I said about jewelry, they have a 70% off sale and then you learn what its realy worth.
No one is going to tell me that the Japanese, the Koreans are better fishermen than those in the States. That they build better rods, lures etc anf that the US guys dont know how to do it. I have actually read these comments on this and other sites. I refuse to believe it. Do you believe it?
I have read where the same guy making these comments say's that party boat deckhands are not good fishermen, and they dont know how to do it.
Dashing Dan brings up a very good point. He suggests that all of the custom buiders should be offering these blanks. It's a great idea, but can anyone here tell me one company that isnt changing their designs every year, or having recalls? Dan, who has a blank from the Far east that is the same one as last year? My own research says NO ONE.
As for my outdated rods. I build Tuna rods on Calstar blanks. Calstar rods/blanks have caught more tuna, MANY MORE than all of the Asian imports combined. In fact it's not even close. And someone comes along and says that a solid idea is not good anymore, and that everyone wants the other stuff.
It reminds me of the old western movie, Josey Whales. A snake oil salesman comes into town with a great song and dance and says his snake oil will make your life better. The best part was when Clint Eastwood asked "how does it work on stains"? I guess you would have had to see it.
"This too will pass"
kevin, you are right, proof is in the pudding. I have closely examined the Black Hole rods, the finish is beautiful on these rods and they have taken a beating and held up. In fact, many have tried to break the rod on purpose, and they couldn't. Oh yeah, an angler also was able to land a 600# GIANT while fighting stand-up for 4+ hours--he never had to pass the rod. Quality finish, much lighter rod, UNDENIABLE performace.
Seriously, what else do you want? It is undeniable many people will want to try these rods, the word is out, and then the consumer will make his or her own decision.
Recall is my way of customer service. It cost me $4000. It is my way of custom service. You got to be honest customers and yourself. If I should have checked when I tested prototype rods, but I made a mistake. If I didn't recall, very few noticed it as the placement of guides are not what I wanted.
I test my rod my own way. They are my rods. What is wrong with it ? Yes, I broke a couple of rods at the show and I posted it. It tells how important the quality control is and cheap rods don't have luxury to have tight qualitity control.
So the same rod proved to catch 600 lbs giant.
The new nano carbon technology is there and it is up to you whether you utilize it or not. But don't make judgement even without touching it.
Kevin, I know you are decent person. Please don't try to bash others this way. it only hurts your reputation.
I seldom mention others products. Did I mention about your products in the past ? I don't sell $1000 rods, but I don't mention it becasue some other shops sell them. You got to respect other sellers.
I generally comment about jigging rods and it is possible the rods you sell are included in my discussion,but not your name or your shop's name.
It is not just you. I respect all other sellers.
The thing you don't realize is the guys who sell $1,000 rods have very little margin and they bring those rods to accomodate other fishermen who want to get them.
Most Japanese high-end rod gives about 30 percent gross margin. You have to pay shipping charge, duty and other tax. If you have 10 - 15 percent margin, you are very lucky.
High-end market is very specialized market and the demand is very limited. There are huge market for jigging popping rods with reasonable prices. You have the right market for your products. All you have to do is to find right blanks.
I always say good products sell themselves.
In a sense, I promote jigging and popping and I love to introduce new products if I think they are better. It really don't matter I carry them or not. I promote 'new nano carbon' as I see the benefit. I have no doubt even American rod companies will eventuall use those materials. I am sure better material than 'nano carbon will come out in the future.
I always persuit the best quality products available, but they are not cheap. But I always give my honest opnions when asked and give list of products with reasonable prices. I saw Van Staal rod caught 170 - 180 lbs tuna and I recommended the rod. I saw Hopper rod can do the job done for decent tuna and I recommended them to those who were looking for rods for reasonable prices.
In honesty, your products are not 'outdated', but your old mind is 'outdated'. I tried to pursuade you and hoped to see new trends.
But you are stubborn like a rock.
If you need any help from me in the future, don't hesitate to contact me.
I never feel any competition from others. To promote jigging and popping in the US, which is my ultimate goal, we need coopertion among rod builders, shops which specializes jigging and popping.
Last edited by KSONG; 04-12-2010 at 10:17 AM.
Lets move ahead
There should be no arguing between kevin and kil, kil sells great blanks and rods, and kevin wraps rods. Kevin heres and idea if you want to keep up with the market buy blanks from kil and wrap them, then you are both happy. There is no reason to try to fight what people want, kils got a great product in the black hoel rod he also has jm rods which are sick, so you guys should work out a deal then your both happy.
I hear what Kevin is saying. I try to buy American when I can, and in this instance I dont think you have to go overseas to find the blanks. Look at the Seeker Hercules line made here in the states for instance. Maybe a little different action, but still close to indestructible, and light from what I've seen.
I guess why I'm even BOTHERING to chime in is because of past importing exeriences with machinery manufacturers in Asia. I guess in the end, I would never believe, unless I have an independant materials analysis in hand, that anything made over there has the 'latest, greatest, x material'. Again, maybe I'm jaded from personal exerience and being burned by more than one manufacturer, but I dont trust them for ****, and I dont care how well you know them. Which would be more aggrivating if you're paying some kind of premium.
My $.02. Kil knows his crap & I'm not demeaning his product in any way, just relating my exerience in I think I know where Kevin is coming from
When I saw Super Seeker Hercules blanks for the first time, it surprised me and I claimed the blanks are the best japanese style jigging blank made in the US. When you see the quality of St Croix rods/blanks, They definitely can make excellent Japanese style rods.
When I see any quality rods/blanks, I don't hesitate to recommend to others whether they are made in the US, China, Japan or Korea.
In fact, I start to use American brand braided line as I saw some problems of Japanese PE(braided line) as I feel American hollow lines like Tuf, JB or Cortland lines are consistant and the breaking point is way higher.
You are assured that all tackles I carry are good quality as I test myself extensively before selling them.
If I find any problem of my products, I don't hesitate to tell the products have problems and find solutions.
I have been selling my products as a viewpoint of fisherman and I will.
did I see your going to the South Pacific? Fiji?
Sounds like an adventure to me, I am going to Key Largo on Friday,
I will be fishing there this weekend, runnign the 57' Bertram - maybe drop a jig into 400ft, and see what bites.
Any plans for fishing with your group w/ Capt Phil in New Hampshire