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Discussion Starter #1
Guys, I wanted to Copy & Paste Some Discussion
that happened in the Fishing Report Thread last
week and I felt it was important enough to have
its own thread.. It concerns me very much on
how fish are being tagged. Please Read Below
on what was mentioned and if you have any
insight to this problem feel free to speak up..
......


eelball
Member
Member # 1263

posted October 15, 2004 02:36 PM
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eel, I also had a taged fish the other week. Was it the loop tag behind the dorsal fin? The tag was nasty. The fish had never healed where the tag penitrated its back, and the growth on the tag trailed behind tearing up the fishes rump and the top of its tail as it swam. I figure I put that fish out of its missery. Seems like there could be a better way. Does anyone know if all fish tags develop that growth on them?

YES!! It was as ugly a tag as I have ever seen. It looked big and nasty, with growth. I'm still waiting for a response on the tag. Whoever tags bass like that really should stop.

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SPOTS! WE DON'T NEED NO STINKIN' SPOTS!

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Posts: 1273 | From: Northfield,NJ,Atl. | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged |

NIGHTSTRIKES
Moderator
Member # 263

posted October 15, 2004 02:44 PM
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eelball
quote:

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Whoever tags bass like that really should stop
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I agree, these taggings seem to do more harm
then good,especially for the fish.....
I seen it way to many times where the area is
very infected....

Far26
Member
Member # 156

posted October 18, 2004 08:19 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by BUCKTAIL WILLIE:
eelball, as one who has tagged over 3300 striper
with over 170 recaught from every state from Maine to NC ,I can tell you that any fish out over a year will have significant growth on the tag.
I've caught tagged fish of my own that were out over 3 years and they are full of growth,Also the tag used by US wildlfe gets signifciant growth.
Scientist at Woods Hole tell me there is no way to prevent it and it does not harm the fish
Important thing is to turn the tag in as it is the best information scientist get,along with the Rutgers program.
thanks in advance
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I personally don't like the ALS method of tagging, the belly tags fish I've caught seem much healthier. I don't understand why ALS tags are looped through the fish making two holes instead of one. Piercing a fish anywhere is sure to put a little added stress on the fish let alone doing it twice. Also there is usually about 2 inches of free space between the loop, if a fish was ever to grow to monster size wouldn't the tag cut into the fish?
Just my opinion but I honestly think there is a better way.

[ 10-18-2004, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: NIGHTSTRIKES ]
 

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After thinking about it. These are WAY to big. The tag was like a handle. The area around the tag was infected. The tag had growth. There has got to be a better way.
Anyway, the bass was tagged 2 years ago and released from SIC.
 

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The belly tags that I have seen are cleaner and less of a hinderence looking. They should be standeard practice until an even better method can be developed.
 

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I was told a couple of years ago that the belly tag had a higher chance of infection than the dorsel fin tag. I've caught 41 fish with a tag on them and only 2 had any signs of infection.
1- ALS tag out 3 years
1 US Wildlife tag out 26 months
of the 41 9 were US Wildlife and and 32 ALS
There also are a lot of bass with red sores and infections on stomach area WITHOUT tags.
Got one this morning that had 13 red sores on tail and stomach that were ugly and looked infected
I put a tag in it and released noting on the ALS card the condition of the fish
 

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Ive seen that infected looking tag a bunch..only seen couple tags that actually looked good...more harm than good...I think so
 

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You may think it is more harm than good BUT the tagged fish is probably healthier than most of the bass being thrown overboard. Saw one today thrown out of a boat 15 ft in the air
Taggged fish returns are critical for getting the data needed to determine the health of the population ,along with growth rates and travel patterns.
It is critical that tags get returned so real data can be used regardless of which tag it is.
I was asked to tag sea bass this year because of the need to get more information in order to determine current status
The data is being used and used for our (recreational ) benefit.
No doubt there are some poor taggers but regardless the information is needed and critical
I figure I could catch 35-40% more fish if I didn't take the time to tag BUT I want my grandkids to be able to enjoy fishing the way I do
ALS does have a new clip tag that is smaller and I'm using it for first time this year.This tag makes for a consistent lop with no exceass.
I will wait until I get some returns with this tag to decide if it is an improvement
 

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Willie,
The work you do is priceless, and I don't want to sound in anyway like I'm putting your hard work down. I'm glad that someone cares as much as you do and wish everyone had just a little bit of the concern that you do. Thank you.
 

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Originally posted by PhilCVG:
Steve,

I have caught fish with 3 or 4 different type of tags and the ALS system leaves the most to be desired. For one, the placing of an ALS tag in a fish can be tough for someone not familiar with the process. It took me some time and technique development to finally get a process down that was quick and efficient. Even then a flopping fish will just give you a headache. I stabbed myself with the needle more than once trying to put a tag in a flopping fish. Though I learned that if a fish flops too much, just toss it back because it is not worth the effort or the life of the fish.

The ALS needle is pretty thick which leads to problems pushing it through the fish. The bigger fish and fish with tough skin tend to be a problem. The most problematic issue I have seen with the ALS tags is that taggers have trouble determining the amount of space to leave between the back of the fish and the knot of the tag. Leave too much space and it seems the tag will become covered with aquatic growth. Leave to little space and as the fish grows the tag will become to tight around its back and will create a sore. I caught a fish in which the skin actually grew around the tag. This area also was raw. Neither is good, though leaving too much space seems to me to be the better side to error on.

earlybird,

Most tags should have directions stating what to do with the tag and/or a phone number or address
A post from way back when ...

[ 10-20-2004, 07:39 PM: Message edited by: PhilCVG ]
 

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eelball, how long did it take to get the info on the fish from the ALS? I'm still waiting to hear on the fish I posted about on the top of the page.

Willie, I didn't mean to imply by that post that the tags do more harm than good. I also apreciate the effort put forth by yourself and others like you. I did send the tag in telling them the location, size, date, and stomach contents. I'm curious to learn where it was tagged.

The fact that it was the loop tag on the back is what was causing a problem for the fish.I would think that a tag hanging off the side or below the fish might do less damage as the growth trailed below as fish swam.
 

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I also caught a fish tagged by the ALS several years ago. And the tag was really nasty!! I took it to FQ and they said it was the worst tag they ever seen! It was looped behind the dorsal with a lot of growth on it! I totally agree that they should STOP tagging fish in this manner!
 

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It usually takes about a month to get info back from ALS
They are using a totally manual process and ONLY one person running the show ans she does one helleva job in my opinion as one who is approaching 1200 tagged fish in 2004
I have inquired about possible changes to the tag and will let you know what I find out
As stated previously ,when tagged properly this tag is fine as it is inserted in a meaty area.
Risk of the belly tag is people missing the insertion spot and this could really damage the fish
 

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By the way, the fish I caught with the tag looked like someone tied it into a knot which I found really strange!

Willie, let us know what you find out!

BTW, I received my info back within 6 weeks!

[ 10-22-2004, 11:45 PM: Message edited by: Striper101 ]
 

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Well, guys I talked to ALS today and they are going to stay with current ribbon tag and the clip type tag for larger fish.Both require a needle
They have the data that supports using this tag.
The tag used by USFWS is surgially implemented under controlled conditions and number tagged is low.
The dart type tag backs act like a spinter over time unless it catches a bone
Data indicates the current yellow tag is most versatile and holds up much longer in the long run.They have returned tags over 12 years old and I have 2 returns that were out over 7 years.
Even the surgically installed USFWS tags lacks that kind of longevity
when ALS tag is installed properly back of 2nd dorsel fin it does not hit any vital organs.
Infection is rare but can happen if tagger isn't careful with how he handles tags.
I've got 367 tag returns from the 7000 fish Ive tagged and none reported with any infection, yes many had significant growth but no infection
IMPORTANT thing is to return the tags regardless
of which tag it is ,it is best data available
 
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