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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We are considering at some point in the future looking into upgrading to a larger boat, and one in particular we are considering is the Viking 43 Open. I think I've found most of the posts on the internet discussing them, but I always like to try to find out as much as I can before we ever go to actually look at anything.

From what I can tell most of them had Detroits, so we are probably looking at something from around 2000 or so where we can find something with Mans instead, as from what I have read they were trying to push too much power out of the Detroits significantly increasing the odds of nasty failures. We would be doing pretty much all the work ourselves on the Mans, so that should lessen the blow on the intensive and $$$ maintenance requirements on those engines.

Any experiences anyone can offer on owning or fishing them would definitely be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Chris
 

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We are considering at some point in the future looking into upgrading to a larger boat, and one in particular we are considering is the Viking 43 Open. I think I've found most of the posts on the internet discussing them, but I always like to try to find out as much as I can before we ever go to actually look at anything.

From what I can tell most of them had Detroits, so we are probably looking at something from around 2000 or so where we can find something with Mans instead, as from what I have read they were trying to push too much power out of the Detroits significantly increasing the odds of nasty failures. We would be doing pretty much all the work ourselves on the Mans, so that should lessen the blow on the intensive and $$$ maintenance requirements on those engines.

Any experiences anyone can offer on owning or fishing them would definitely be appreciated.


Thanks in advance.

Chris
Contact Billy at Cape May Marine. They are a BB Sponsor.
We both fished on one a few years ago. Nice boat, good running in most conditions to 4-5. Think the boat was Mid -late 90's model 25 to 32kts depending on power sea conditions, Layout good for dayboat and weekends. Good size cockpit and trolled well with a stable fishing platform while drifting. A little bit tight on storage if you are going to have lots of tackle and gear. Do not remember fuel but did do canyon trips and think fuel burn was about 250-300gl. Ran generator all day also.
The guy who owned the boat had a house in CM so no need for overnight accomadations but could easily sleep 4 or 5. Really nice interior finish as most Vikings have. The owner liked it so much when he upgraded boats he went to a 60 Viking.

contact Bill Kocis at 609-884-0262 or email [email protected]
ask him about Toms boat "TD's Toy".

http://www.yachtworld.com/unitedyacht-nj/unitedyacht-nj_4.html

Bass Barn Sponsor
 

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Fished on a 43' express for three full seasons. Absolutely loved the boat. 6v92's and cruised about 25/26 kt burning about 52/54 gallons per hour. Fished that boat in every kind of condition and every time came back with more confidence in its abilities. Only reason the owner upped to a 50' open was for more space below otherwise he'd still have her. He sold her with strong running 2200 hour engines three seasons ago and those motors are still going for her current owner. Any specific questions feel free to ask as i know Tons about this boat.
ps- the owner bought the boat having come from a 330 grady express as well :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info, guys! I'll pass it along to my father. Sounds like everyone has been happy with them and with Viking in general.
 

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Chris, I have run the El Gina for many years. Turns heads, runs great and catches fish! She's a 43' 1998 that was Viking Yacht's demo boat. Repowered with Cat C-12s that have 620 hrs. and new hull and topside Imron done by the talented Jersey Cape crew, you won't find a nicer 43 on the market. Contact me at [email protected] if I can answer any questions for you. Good luck in your search.
 

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run a 43 out of sea bright nj with 692 550 hp cruse 25 knts 46 gal per hr with gen . boat is a tank and the motors love to run.
 

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Chris,

Good advice appears above. Yes, there are challenges with the Detriot DDECs but keep in mind that part of the cost of the MANs is the parts which won't change doing it yourself. Overall they're good boats. If you're looking for help feel free to reach out. We've been the NJ Viking Dealer for something like 30 years and have plenty of experience with them. Good luck in your search.

Brian
 

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Depending on model year, engines are likely to be 550 HP Detroit 6V92 or 625 HP 6V92 DDEC. The general concensus is that 625HP was too much for that engine, producing a shorter life span before MOH is required. However, some DDEC owners have derated their engines to lower HP and therefore should get the same life expectancy as the 550HP models. So, you'll need to differentiate between the Detroit model for each boat considered and then try to determine how it was run, especially if DDEC. A borescope inspection through the airbox inspection ports will easily tell the story.

Overheat is the death sentence for the 6V92 family. These engines use O-rings to seal the cylinder liner to block. The rings are compromised if run over 220 degrees, approximately.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Chris, I have run the El Gina for many years. Turns heads, runs great and catches fish! She's a 43' 1998 that was Viking Yacht's demo boat. Repowered with Cat C-12s that have 620 hrs. and new hull and topside Imron done by the talented Jersey Cape crew, you won't find a nicer 43 on the market. Contact me at [email protected] if I can answer any questions for you. Good luck in your search.

I believe I've seen your boat while browsing around online. It has the dark blue hull, right? How is the maintenance on the Imron compared to regular gelcoat?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Chris,

Good advice appears above. Yes, there are challenges with the Detriot DDECs but keep in mind that part of the cost of the MANs is the parts which won't change doing it yourself. Overall they're good boats. If you're looking for help feel free to reach out. We've been the NJ Viking Dealer for something like 30 years and have plenty of experience with them. Good luck in your search.

Brian
Thanks, appreciate the input. We actually purchased our Grady from you guys back a bit over 2 years ago. I'll have to research the engines a bit more. The reputation of Detroits being noisy and oil leakers as well as being a bit high output for their displacement had me looking at the Mans as an alternative.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Depending on model year, engines are likely to be 550 HP Detroit 6V92 or 625 HP 6V92 DDEC. The general concensus is that 625HP was too much for that engine, producing a shorter life span before MOH is required. However, some DDEC owners have derated their engines to lower HP and therefore should get the same life expectancy as the 550HP models. So, you'll need to differentiate between the Detroit model for each boat considered and then try to determine how it was run, especially if DDEC. A borescope inspection through the airbox inspection ports will easily tell the story.

Overheat is the death sentence for the 6V92 family. These engines use O-rings to seal the cylinder liner to block. The rings are compromised if run over 220 degrees, approximately.

At the 550 hp they are right on the 1 hp per cubic inch line, so I wasn't sure if even at that output they were running a bit more power than they should be. In comparison the Man D2848LE401s are making 680 hp out of about 891 cubic inches. Would this mean that in theory if maintenance was kept up with and the engine is run at a reasonable % output the Man should have a longer life, or at least less major problems?
 

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At the 550 hp they are right on the 1 hp per cubic inch line, so I wasn't sure if even at that output they were running a bit more power than they should be. In comparison the Man D2848LE401s are making 680 hp out of about 891 cubic inches. Would this mean that in theory if maintenance was kept up with and the engine is run at a reasonable % output the Man should have a longer life, or at least less major problems?
There are a lot of 550 HP DD's out there running in 45 Hatteras and similar hulls from the '70's through mid-90's. The 625 DDECs are more prevalent in 1995 and up hulls.

Given the 1:1 HP to displacement ratio of the 550 HP 6V92 I was much more comfortable with that engine's longevity than with the DDEC version. However, after lots of searching through boat listings I have found that the most typical rebuild time, for even the 550HP version, was still under 2000 hours. For DDECs advertised at full rating it seems as though 1,000 hours was typical.

What I couldn't discern from the listings are all the reasons for rebuilds needed at premature hours. However, there were a few that the owner / broker confirmed as overheat related and at least one that failed because previous owner never opened the throttle enough to allow proper air flow through the engine. This caused excessive soot clogging internally and premature valve train failure. These DDs need to be run regularly at 1950 RPM, but not so high that you push the overheating possibility. Proper cooling system maintenance is also very critical.

The next issue to face with older DDs is parts. They are still readily available, but the problem lies in their source of manufacture. FWIW, I have heard (not from personal experience) that Asian-made parts are prone to premature failure. Parts cost is not that high, but having a rebuilt engine blow up 500 hours after spending $2K per hole in labor is another story.

I have never researched Mann engines, but it would stand to reason that 680HP out of 891 CI would be a very long-lived engine. I would be concerned about overall boat performance with that physically large an engine and only 680 HP, but that would mostly depend on hull type and design. I do know that Mann scheduled services are beau-coup bucks and are not do-it-yourself items, ($10K per 1K hours), so one way or another you'll have to pay. The benefit of DDs is all of the local knowledge available at cheaper rates and the ability to DIY if you are so inclined.

I have been on boats with well tuned and good running DD 6V92s and will say that they purr like a kitten when all is well. Maybe I'm just nuts or too traditional, but I like the old DDs. Nothing else sounds quite the same.
 

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Chris,
Taking care of the Imron is not any more difficult then gel coat. It does help when you have the talent of Jersey Cape applying the paint and leaving you a nice canvas to work with. I wash her down, then hit her with 3M Finess and finish with two coats of Flagship or any good quality wax. It seems to work as I have had bees trying to attack it's own reflection in the hull. The boat is listed on boats.com and can be seen at Jersey Cape.
 

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I agree SSawed, Capt. Brian's boat (Fish n chip) sounds great with a good tank of fuel. When I hear and smell those engines I think of wasabi and soy sauce!
 

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I agree SSawed, Capt. Brian's boat (Fish n chip) sounds great with a good tank of fuel. When I hear and smell those engines I think of wasabi and soy sauce!
I think 50+ years of Detroit Diesel sound conditioning has the same affect on most fish, minus the condiments :D:thumbsup:.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks again for the responses everyone! I will keep all your advice in mind as we are looking around at different options.

Regarding the Mans, there is certainly a good bit more iron involved, about 1,000 lbs more for each engine. Basically the same engine is also available in an 800 hp version, still out of the 891 c.i. package. That would certainly help the power to weight ratio there, but will probably slightly decrease the engine longevity again. I guess there will always be a trade off. We are very capable mechanically, so no matter what engines we end up with more than likely any work that can be done with the engines still in the boat will be done by ourselves, which will hopefully greatly reduce the overall costs of running the diesels. I'm planning to take a pretty proactive maintenance approach, pretty much immediately converting anything we get to a multi-stage fuel filtration system as I believe that will save a lot of wear and tear on the fuel system in the long run. No matter what, anything in this size class will be an experience for us as we have only owned outboard boats for the last 22 years or so, our current Grady being huge compared to our old Sea Ray. So again, thanks for all your input, it is much appreciated.
 

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Nobody was comparing 2 to 4 stroke. Each engine was discussed separately. As was said, 550HP 6V92 life BMOH was estimated (through boat sales research) at 2,000 hours. Your 3,000 hour estimate is also very feasible as none of this is exact science.

As for weight, an 891 CI engine is most likely to be physically larger and heavier than a 552 CI engine, 4-stroke or not. As the OP stated, the 680 HP Mann is about 1K lbs heavier than other engines in the same power range. 2K less pounds in any boat with the same HP will likely perform better. That was the only point trying to be made regarding weight.

A large displacement engine with low HP output will always live longer than a higher output smaller displacement engine. Nothing to do with weight, but differences in max RPM, heat and internal pressures.
 

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I think you guys are comparing apples to oranges. All those old detroits are 2 cycle diesels. Mans and newer marine diesels of today are 4 cycle.
You'll be Lucky to get 3000 hrs out of any 2 cycle diesel regardless of weight. Weight has little to do with engine life in the diesels of today. It's all in the design.

Most 4 cycle diesels of today will last as long as you want them to and weigh half as much as those old detroits. Some are even a notch above this like Lugger and Scania.

I have well over 3,000 hours on my 92's and they run like tops! Keep in mind, these motors are pushing a 50,000 pound boat around day in and day out. I see no reason why I won't get another 1,000-1,500 hours out of them before we rebuild.

As long as you keep on the maintenance, don't overheat them, or let them run too cool as to not burn the fuel being pumped into it causing excessive carbon build up you will never have major problems.

People that have problems, run them too hard, have over pitched wheels therefore overloading the motor and working them hard, overheated them or don't run them out enough ect...

DD's were known for long life, especially the naturally aspirated motors. Oh, and they raise more fish! :D
 

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The 43 is a great boat...incredible sea boat...The 43 was at the top of my price range, but I was only looking at boats that were considered incredible sea boats. And list of boats went from Black fin 32, to the Carolina Classic 35, to the Black Fin 38, to the Viking 43. I am excited for you. lol

The El Gina is the same marina as me, and I can tell you she looks mint!!! With C-12's....it is going to be hard to find one better. And going from your Grady...you'll wonder if the physics of water changed.
 

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People that have problems, run them too hard, have over pitched wheels therefore overloading the motor and working them hard, overheated them or don't run them out enough ect...
^This statement speaks volumes for any marine diesel motor. It really all depends on who owned/maintained them before you got them.

There's guys that run their motors to the pins all the time, with a loaded boat, into a 5 sec. chop, etc. Those are usually the motors that head south before 1000 hours.
 
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