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Discussion Starter #1
Hey boys and girls.... did you notice that some moron at NMFS make it illegal to use a hook when fishing in the SMZ zones around the artificial reefs? :eek: I know you're going to ask me why I say this.... and here it is:

Look at the SMZ law that is now in effect:
50 CFR 648.148 Special management zones​
(b)(2) " ....... From January 1 through December 31 of each year, no person may fish in the New Jersey Special Management Zones except by handline, rod and reel, or spear fishing (including the taking of fish by hand). ....."​
But look at the definition of "rod and reel" contained in federal law applying to the Northeast region:
50 CFR Part 648 - FISHERIES OF THE NORTHEASTERN UNITED STATES
Subpart A - General Provisions​
§ 648.2 Definitions. "Rod and reel means a hand-held (including rod holder) fishing rod with a
manually operated reel attached."
Notice that the Federal definition of rod and reel in the Northeast region does NOT include a hook. (and we all know that when you buy a rod and reel at a tackle store, it doesn't come with a hook.)

That law says that you cannot fish (Def: catch or attempt to catch a fish) except by the things listed.....and the things listed do not include a hook.........

OOPS... Who's fishing illegally, the guy with the trap or the guy with the hook.... or BOTH ?? Oh, that should kick off a good discussion !!!!:cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #3
You're right Philly hooker, you should NEVER go full retard (by thinking that you can do whatever you want). You can play dumb... but the law says you can't use hooks in the SMZs. Don't go "full retard" by ignoring it.

Here's a part of a letter that I recently sent to the Coast Guard.
Here's the mess that NMFS created. Because the guys at NMFS did not do what 50 CFR 648.148 said they were supposed to do (i.e. list specific gear types), but broad brushed the prohibited gear types, and were so arrogant as to ignore public comment about this (see fed register 31684 Federal Register / Vol. 83, No. 131 / Monday, July 9, 2018 / Rules and Regulations; NMFS response to comment #7), the result is that the adopted laws actually prohibit the use of hooks.

But, Here's YOUR problem; You aren't enforcing what's written in the law. Why not ??? Based on what's written in the law, you should be writing tickets to people using a prohibited gear type-- hooks (just as you are intent on writing tickets to fishermen using traps)! But, you been allowing fishermen to use hooks even though hooks are a prohibited gear type because they are NOT part of a rod and reel. What kind of law enforcement is that ??? You are interpreting the law to mean what you, or somebody else, wants it to say.... rather than what it says.


 

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Discussion Starter #5
You missed 3. Bait, weight and line! Don't go full tard.
You can throw bait, weight and line in the water all you want, it's legal. you probably won't catch a fish without a hook. You can even add a hook to your bait,weight and line; that's called a handline

50 CFR 648.2 -- Handline or handline gear means fishing gear that is released by hand and consists of one main line to which is attached no more than two leaders for a total of no more than three hooks. Handlines are retrieved only by hand, not by mechanical means.

But as soon as you put that line with a hook on a rod and reel ..... you're fishing illegally. The law says YOU CAN'T DO THAT....
 

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They stopped all fishing and spearfishing in certain reef zones in the Florida Keys. One Looe Key is right offshore of my brothers house. It is the best thing that could have happened for that location. It has become a diving and snorkeling paradise. I think part of the over fishing equation is all of the artificial reefs up here squeezing all the fish into a tight areas making it to easy for fish to be hooked.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
They stopped all fishing and spearfishing in certain reef zones in the Florida Keys. One Looe Key is right offshore of my brothers house. It is the best thing that could have happened for that location. It has become a diving and snorkeling paradise. I think part of the over fishing equation is all of the artificial reefs up here squeezing all the fish into a tight areas making it to easy for fish to be hooked.
Attracting Black Sea Bass to the artificial reefs certantly isn't helping the recreational sector of fishermen stay within their target quota set by the NMFS.......

But what do you think about the HUGE mistake/mess that NMFS created by changing the words of the law from what the MAFMC requsted? Should the CG be enforcing the law the way it's written, or ignoring it?
 

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They'll ignore it would cost another 40 million to fix it :nuts:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
It's all based on commercial fishing with specific gear. You are allowed to fish via rod and reel. That includes the use of hooks. You're overthinking this. And the reason nobody is commenting is because it's a stupid thead that you just want to argue with everyone that doesn't see it your way

Here's the definition of "rod and reel" contained in federal law applying to the Northeast region:
50 CFR Part 648 - FISHERIES OF THE NORTHEASTERN UNITED STATES
Subpart A - General Provisions
§ 648.2 Definitions. "Rod and reel means a hand-held (including rod holder) fishing rod with a
manually operated reel attached."

Sorry erickoch, I'm not making this stuff up..... A "hook" is NOT in that definition. That means that a hook is not part of a rod and reel in the Northeast region.

Just to show you that NMFS could have included "hook" in the definition of rod and reel in the Northeast if they wanted to.... here's the definition of "rod and reel" that they put in the SE region's definition.
50 CFR Part 622 - FISHERIES OF THE CARIBBEAN, GULF OF MEXICO, AND SOUTH ATLANTIC
Subpart A - General Provisions
§ 622.2 Definitions and acronyms. Rod and reel means a rod and reel unit that is not attached to a vessel, or, if attached, is readily removable, from which a line and attached hook(s) are deployed. The line is payed out from and retrieved on the reel manually, electrically, or hydraulically.

So do you want to discuss the law, or do you think that they should not enforce it the way it is written?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
It's all based on commercial fishing with specific gear. You are allowed to fish via rod and reel. That includes the use of hooks. You're overthinking this. And the reason nobody is commenting is because it's a stupid thead that you just want to argue with everyone that doesn't see it your way
I don't see any "specific gear" listed in the law.... And according to NMFS and their responses to comments in the Federal register, it's NOT about commercial fishing......The law says that NOBODY can fish with ANY fishing gear except rod and reel and spear (including hand). That means that NOBODY can use a hook because a hook is NOT part of a rod and reel.....
 

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Fishing with rod and reel includes hooks and accessory's such as weights. You would not be fishing holding a rod and reel just looking at the water without a hook, line, weight ect.. Are you serious???
 

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Discussion Starter #17
This is also in the Definitions
Hook gear means fishing gear that is comprised of a hook or hooks attached to a line and includes, but is not limited to, longline, setline, jigs, troll line, rod and reel, and line trawl.
So that means you can use hooks and or jigs
In the future, please include the legal reference to your post (in this case you are refering to 50 CFR Part 648.2)

Yes, I see that definition of "hook gear". But the law does not say that you can use "hook gear". In fact the law says:
50 CFR 648.148 Special management zones
(2) " ....... From January 1 through December 31 of each year, no person may fish in the New Jersey Special Management Zones except by handline, rod and reel, or spear fishing (including the taking of fish by hand). ....."

It says that no person may fish except by "rod and reel, and spear (including hand)". It doesn't say you can use "hook gear". So "hook gear" (along with fish trap, fish pot, all forms of nets and dredges) is prohibited gear in the SMZs......

Does it remind you of anything ?? (
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNWBsWihYjM )


 

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Discussion Starter #18
Fishing with rod and reel includes hooks and accessory's such as weights. You would not be fishing holding a rod and reel just looking at the water without a hook, line, weight ect.. Are you serious???
I posted the Federal law......Can't you read?? Federal law (and your purchase at the tackle store) does not include a hook as part of a rod and reel. Yes, both I and Federal law are serious... Good luck fishing "looking at the water" with your rod and reel......
 

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Well you you follow the rules as you see them and i will follow the rules as i interpret them :thumbsup:
 

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Well you you follow the rules as you see them and i will follow the rules as i interpret them :thumbsup:
Looks like you just picked option 3 in you signature.:cool:
 
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