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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know I buck the trend when it comes to flourocarbon leaders because I use mono.

We use invisable line and composite rods aided by electronics and then we clunk the fish on the head with a tangle of terminal tackle.

I know I talk a lot about my aquarium but believe me it has given me an education on fish and fishing.

Many ready made rigs especially for flounder are a bit complicated. Swivel to heavy leader with two hooks some with teasers or spinners and a clip for a weight.

They will catch fish. They will also spook fish.
I have tried these in my aquarium. I remove the hook and tie on a piece of bait. The flounder will move right up to the bait and if very hungry attack right away.

If they aren't hungry they will act differently. They will stalk, sliding to within inches checking it out closely. At some point a nerve may trigger the flounder to attack but attack what.

Baitfish school for protection. A swirling mass of fish makes it difficult for a predator to pick out a single target.

A crouded rig can do the same thing. It gives the flounder too many things to look at. Two baits, knots, loops, swivel and weight.

I have seen flounder move up to the bait and ready for the attack. You can see it tense it's entire body. Then I move the rig to try to trigger the attack and the flounder jumps but sometimes it's at the weight. The weight moved and the flounder caught the movement out of the corner of it's eye and turned on it.

When I was a kid fishing with my father we used something called a smoothie fish finding rig. Nothing fancy just a top and bottom rig made out of heavy mono, swivel and crimps. We supplied the hooks.

My father tied his own hooks and began using a long leader. The top hook was on a leader five feet long. This spread out the baits and we averaged about 90% of our fish on that long hook. I would have continued using them but there was a problem with the crimps. The metal was splitting and when you set the hook many times the rig would just fall apart and you pulled in nothing but the swivel.

Thats when I switched to a bucktail. Simplest rig I have ever used. Line to a three foot leader and a bucktail. Nothing to confuse the flounder or to tangle up.

When the bite is slow you may want to reduce what you have on the bottom. Flounder can be as finicky as the next fish. Give them too much to look at and they may just look the other way.
 

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Chunking,sometimes more is to much,If im using a top bottom rig with hair or feathers,blades beads,and its slow,Ill change up and go naked as i call it,a one hook rig,plain and simple.weight on bottom,3-4 ft leader floro to hook above it,with minnow,or squid,strip bait....has turned a slow day into a very productive one on many occasions,Great tip.thanks,Vinny
 

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I use a white bucktail with red threads on the bottom with minnow or f-bellie and a float rig on top- the bucky is on about a 24inch leader and the float(they are about 3/8inche long) is on about a 40inch leader and I put a tooth pick in it as to move it up and down the leader, seems that sometimes the flounder like it right at the hook and other times 6 to 12 inches up the leader, I think it gets there attention and then the minnow or worm or whatever comes along and I get most of my fish on the float, I do use floro though, I tie both the bucky and the float to on swivel so that if either get damaged I can change to whole rig quickly, fishpole
 

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Fred,

After reading your post, I found it interesting of your observation of flounder in a tank as I used to do the same with largemouth bass. Your findings provoked me to attempt a rig that would adhere to a few of the problems you had observed. The two that enticed my curiosity of developing a rig was that the fish actually attacked the sinker (Always wondered about that)and the finicky flounder. I quickly put together this rig and have used a marker on the liter for the purpose of the photo only. This rig seems to give the best of both worlds. Using the heavy bucktail as the weight would eliminate the sinker issue and the long single hooked liter allows for a scaled down single strip or minnow bait for the tough days. It also provides a secondary strike target for the flounder on those fast drift days. In following your theory, you will also notice that there are no snap swivels etc.

What do you think :confused:
Oh yes...It's winter time and I'm bored :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hey Mega.

The rig you designed works very well. We used to call it the trailor or stinger.

I stopped using it a long time ago when the flounder limits began favoring larger fish. It never failed that the larger flounder attacked the larger presentation, the bucktail. The smaller fish took the stinger.

It always seemed that when the small fish took the stinger they would shake so hard that they would bounce the bait right off the bucktail. Nothing more aggravating then having a small flounder bounce a large and hard to come by jumbo minnow off the bucktail.

I just gave up and fished a straight bucktail. Cut down on my catch but it seems that the fish I gave up on were the small ones.

Every once in a while I will go back to it when I fish the ocean or bay but in the back it's strickly the jig.

We always figured that the flounder would notice the bucktail from some distance and begin moving up on it. As it got closer to the target it would see the stinger and hit it first.

The problem seemed to be that small flounder are more aggressive than the larger fish. The bucktail along with a strip or large minnow may draw interest but intimidate a small flounder. A single hook with bait won't.

We still catch small flounder on the bucktail but not nearly as many as the stinger.

Try this some time. I would buy a pack of white grubbs about an inch long and slide one on the stinger before the bait. It helped make the stinger more visible in the murky water.

One more tip. When you tie the rig don't just tie a loop. Both ends will point in the same direction causing the bucktail and stinger to tangle often. Tie a dropper loop so both ends leave the knot in opposite directions. You won't believe what a difference this makes.

Also we found out that the closer you can get the bucktail to the loop the better. The longer that section of line is the more you will reel in only to find a tangle of bucktail and stinger.

Have fun with it. :D
 

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chunking, I love reading your posts, keep it up, greatly appriciated.

as a note while flounder fishing and it might just tie into your observations, using fireline, I'll feel the slightest hit while my finger is laid on the line.

I always drop the line back once a 'tap' is felt, opening the bail, allowing line to peel off, close the bail, then 'feel' if she's still there, if not, I drop back again. Hopefully giving the fish more of an opertunity to grab the bait nowing a fish is there.

or, I feel the fish will sometimes mouth the bait or clamp down on just the tail section, this still allows more time of the bait in front of the fish.

Speaking of spreading out, lets say you have 4 lines out on the boat, I like the boat turned slightly on the drift to 'spread out' the presentation to cover more ground. like a party boat. All out the back, they'll be as tight as they are placed in the rod holders draggin in line, then lends it's self to the 'to much' theory.

Just wish the drop back method worked on bass if you missed one, most of the time they don't come back :(

Ah, flounder fishing, come on Summer!
 

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Caught a couple species on this rig, it works! Thats one of my favorite weakfish rigs, only difference being a 1/8 oz bucktail or feathered hook on the trailer. Extremely effective sometimes at getting doubles. Once one fish is hooked, that unbitten bucktail get the perfect action I guess. I've put 3oz bucktails on this and caught weaks in 55ft of water.
 

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Ramblin,

I figured it would be a good Weakfish rig as the stinger hook is slightly suspended. I would imagine that the stinger hook would be productive on seabass as well while fishing the artificial reefs for fluke.
 

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Chunking...I have always tied direct when using a bucktail; 10# and 20# fireline. I would say that I had good success, but I hear so much about leaders. Do you tie the leader directly to your line or do you use a spro swivel. Do you think if I made the change I would increase my catch? Thanks for any input. Brent
 

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Like the looks of that Mega bites,goin to make a few,Thanks for sharing,Vinny
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey earlybird.

I use a swivel and leader for two reasons.

First. Because of bluefish and size of bucktails I go out ready with a few sizes already tied on leaders with a loop. If a blue chews the leader then snap and I'm back in business. Also if the size bucktail I'm using isn't attracting the attention I'm used to then once again snap and I'm back to fishing.

Second. The area I fish has so many suspended weeds that I find many collect on the line the entire depth of the water colmn. They will eventually slide down to the hook or bucktail. With a snap swivel it will intercept the weeds.

Can't tell you how many times I pulled in a fish with weeds around the snap swivel. Just gives me a little more time on the bottom.

I get lazy out there and I know that if changing the bucktail was needed because of size or a bluefish I may not do it right away because it means cutting and retying. With the leader and snap it's a snap. :D
 

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Originally posted by Mega Bites:
Fred,

After reading your post, I found it interesting of your observation of flounder in a tank as I used to do the same with largemouth bass. Your findings provoked me to attempt a rig that would adhere to a few of the problems you had observed. The two that enticed my curiosity of developing a rig was that the fish actually attacked the sinker (Always wondered about that)and the finicky flounder. I quickly put together this rig and have used a marker on the liter for the purpose of the photo only. This rig seems to give the best of both worlds. Using the heavy bucktail as the weight would eliminate the sinker issue and the long single hooked liter allows for a scaled down single strip or minnow bait for the tough days. It also provides a secondary strike target for the flounder on those fast drift days. In following your theory, you will also notice that there are no snap swivels etc.

What do you think :confused:
Oh yes...It's winter time and I'm bored :D
Biggest tried these rigs and now is know as charletts web
 

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Hey Fred, do you tie the leader directly to the bucktail using a Improved Clinch or one of the knots that make a small loop to give it more action? I tried the loop method (can't remember the knot name) but it chafed the leader loop and wound up pretty weak.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Hey High Wire.

I use the Uni knot for the bucktail. It's easy and effective plus I can tie it without my glasses. Good all round knot and easy to feel tie it in the dark.
 

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Fred,
I got into using the Spros bucktails the last few years. I have been tying my line right to the buck tail. I have had success with fluke and stripers this way. My problem has been with the blues and sharks giving the bucktails a hair cut. This can get expensive. Have you tried tying your line right to the bucktail? HAPPY DAYS.


Ding
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Hey Ding.

I think the Spro bucktails look great but I stopped using them. The wraps are done poorly by Andrus or Ospreay standards. They need a heavy coating to lock the hairs down tight. I got tired of paying top dollar only to be able to pull the hairs out by hand.

I spoke to Spro last year and their field rep said that they have received complaints about it and they were going to take care of it. Checked the other day and nothing has changed.

I ended up coating the rest of mine with a few coats of clear nail polish. I like making my own stuff but not this much.

I have tried line to bucktail but I stayed with the leader. If you want check my earlier response to this thread about why.

Sorry I missed sticking a few bucks in after your dance at the Fest. Didn't want to get between you and Chumstain. He had that look in his eyes. :D
 
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