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Discussion Starter #1
See: Ben Carson supports citizenship for illegal aliens

September 5, 2015

”On Wednesday, Dr. Ben Carson said America’s borders must be sealed to protect against terrorism and told a prominent group of Latino elected officials that he also supports giving illegal immigrants a path to legalization and eventual citizenship. Regarding the country’s illegal immigrants, Carson said, “many of them have never known any other country … so where are you going to send them?”

Well, just like Jeb amnesty Bush, Ben Carson has more compassion for those who have invaded our borders and are inflicting devastating economic and social consequences upon American citizens, then he has for American citizens who have, in essence, been made into tax slaves to support the economic needs of legal and illegal entrants!

A NEW REPORT verifies that 73 percent of households headed by immigrants from Central America and Mexico are on some sort of welfare program.
Some of the other findings of the report are:

•Welfare use is high for both new arrivals and well-established immigrants. Of households headed by immigrants who have been in the country for more than two decades, 48 percent access welfare.

•The large share of immigrants with low levels of education and resulting low incomes partly explains their high use rates. In 2012, 76 percent of households headed by an immigrant who had not graduated high school used one or more welfare programs, as did 63 percent of households headed by an immigrant with only a high school education.


•The high rates of immigrant welfare use are not entirely explained by their lower education levels. Households headed by college-educated immigrants have significantly higher welfare use than households headed by college-educated natives — 26 percent vs. 13 percent.


•In the four top immigrant-receiving states, use of welfare by immigrant households is significantly higher than that of native households: California (55 percent vs. 30 percent), New York (59 percent vs. 33 percent), Texas (57 percent vs. 34 percent), and Florida (42 percent vs. 28 percent).


Mr. Carson needs to explain to American citizens, many of whom can barely meet their own economic needs, why he wants to not only allow tens of millions of poorly educated, low skilled, poverty stricken illegal aliens to remain in the United States, but have a pathway to citizenship who will most certainly vote for politicians who promise to keep the “free government cheese” coming their way.

Mr. Carson’s rebuttal that we can’t round them all up and deport them is the very talking point used by our socialist/progressives and cleverly allows Carson to avoid having to offer a point by point plan to deal with the 10s of millions who have invaded our borders. Surely someone who puts the best interests of American citizens above the interests of those who have invaded our borders would have a point by point plan which would encourage illegal entrants to leave on their own. For example:


Secure the border

Severely punish employees who knowingly hire illegal entrants

Cut off all welfare to households who harbor illegal entrants

Forbid state issued drivers licenses to illegal entrants

Immediately deport illegal entrants when convicted of a crime, or discovered during normal policing actions

Enforce a new law that any illegal entrants identified in our country after two months of the law's enactment may never enter the United States again or obtain a green card

And, start enforcing existing laws!


Ben Carson's other talking point that, we need to secure our border first and then we will talk about the millions of illegal entrants who are here, is also a way for Carson to dodge talking about what should be done about the millions of illegal entrants who are here.

Ben Carson also uses our open border crowd’s talking point that, “but their doing jobs that American citizens won’t do” is a ruse to acknowledging the truth.

When Ben Carson says this, he is intentionally covering for illegal entrants who have taken over many well-paying jobs in construction such as carpentry, plumbing, masonry, dry wall, roofing and ceramic tile work which provided a sufficient paycheck for American workers to meet their family’s needs. But Illegal entrants have now taken over these jobs by working off the books, accepting a wage far below the going rate, and do not pay taxes on their earned wages. Of course, Carson’s silence on how illegals have taken over these good paying jobs which American workers were doing who have since been forced out of the market and are now unemployed and receiving food stamps to meet their family’s needs shows that Carson has not thought through his compassionate views regarding the tens of millions of illegal aliens who are in our country and their effects on American workers.

What Mr. Carson refused to acknowledge is, the United States cannot be the dumping ground for other countries poverty stricken without American Citizens paying the price.

As long as Ben Carson is in bed with Jeb amnesty Bush, America needs to tell him to go fly a kite.

JWK




To support Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or John Kasich is to support a continuance of Obama's illegal immigration tyranny which includes giving legal status and work permits to tens of millions who have invaded our borders!
 

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Who do you like johnwk? :huh: IMO, these are extremely tiresome posts if you can't find anyone to actually support. :thumbsdown:
 

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Who do you like johnwk? :huh: IMO, these are extremely tiresome posts if you can't find anyone to actually support. :thumbsdown:
I don’t think he even cares who gets in. I believe he likes to pretend to be this constitutional scholar with a vast knowledge on the subject and this is the ONLY reason he posts. He thinks he can overwhelm people who have lives and don’t have time to validate his extensive quotes but when I challenged him on several occasions he didn’t even respond, or responded by pasting the very same quotes I exposed as irrelevant. Total BS artist desperately looking for attention and that’s how I see him. One thing he does very well is running away from uncomfortable questions.


 

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Lunatic, to me it seems like he just copied and pasted an article. There is no original thought whatsoever in the OP. He is parroting talking points.

As far as illegal alien construction workers, pay a company with American employees more to do the job. If a crew of illegals show up to work, send them home. Put your money where your mouth is. Demand a line in the contract that only legal citizens will be involved with a steep penalty for any violation.
 

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JWK its coming like it or not. Best get ready to see a decline in the quality of life across America in the coming years. The rest of the world has spoken – Americans have too Much Wealth, it’s not fair.

Mike Lunatic you waste your time with him.

 

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Mike Lunatic you waste your time with him.
He reminds me of the girl in college who finds fault with all her friend's boyfriends but who never dates herself. Later on, she finds fault with all their husbands but never marries. She eventually dies as a hoarder and surrounded by 127 cats.
 

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He reminds me of the girl in college who finds fault with all her friend's boyfriends but who never dates herself. Later on, she finds fault with all their husbands but never marries. She eventually dies as a hoarder and surrounded by 127 cats.
 

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Seriously JW- We have millions of illegal immigrants already in the US, many of them are hard working individuals who also take advantage of everything that is offered to them. You cant blame them for taking what is offered, like medical, food stamps. Giving them a green card and a pathway to citizenship makes them legitimate tax payers who are also subject to US laws such as the ACA.
I have a real problem with going to the market and hearing nothing but spanish, waiting for 5 hours at the ER as illegals pass in front of me, seeing all of the PA tags (Mexicans not Shoobie), ESL classes in my kids schools, and all the other negatives that come with them. I dont know how to round them up and get rid of them or any other way to fix the issue other than to make them participate in the same system that we are bound to. At the same time we need to lock down the border to prevent more from coming in. I actually think that all immigration should be halted until a solution is found and we can get a realistic grasp on the numbers that are already in the US.
Until then rounding them up and tossing them over an imaginary line is an exercise in futility.
 

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Who do you like johnwk? :huh: IMO, these are extremely tiresome posts if you can't find anyone to actually support. :thumbsdown:

Perhaps people need to get off their butts and get active in the Republican Party and help drive the party to nominate some decent candidates. Sitting on a couch and spouting a trite saying about having to vote for the lesser two evils is just helping the liberal progressives push us ever more left. I suppose if the candidates were Hitler and Mussolini some would say that everyone needs to pick one to support because those are the candidates and one needs to "live in the real world" and support the lesser to two evils. (Yes, I know the come back: "that is not the same thing." But it is, just to a more stark degree, which is the point of arguing by analogy.)
 

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JWK its coming like it or not. Best get ready to see a decline in the quality of life across America in the coming years. The rest of the world has spoken – Americans have too Much Wealth, it’s not fair.

Mike Lunatic you waste your time with him.
Well, we have applied a "soak the 'rich'" policy in the US for decades now, so it is funny to hear people squeal when they think their own purported philosophies are applied against them. But they really have nothing to worry about. The "non rich" now pay a lower share of income taxes than they have in the last 50 years and I don't think that is going to change any time soon. The "rich" are paying for the costs of illegal immigrants and will for a long time to come.
 

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Perhaps people need to get off their butts and get active in the Republican Party and help drive the party to nominate some decent candidates. Sitting on a couch and spouting a trite saying about having to vote for the lesser two evils is just helping the liberal progressives push us ever more left. I suppose if the candidates were Hitler and Mussolini some would say that everyone needs to pick one to support because those are the candidates and one needs to "live in the real world" and support the lesser to two evils. (Yes, I know the come back: "that is not the same thing." But it is, just to a more stark degree, which is the point of arguing by analogy.)
Yes but this candidate you are speaking of does not exist. The country moved on, evolved or whatever you like to call it and there are no electable candidates Johnwk is looking for. In fact I personally don’t want candidates that 100% fit his la-la land. Things have changed, our understanding on many issues changed and that’s only normal.
What you are suggesting, an electable candidate without compromise from the hard core, rigid religious right, does not exist and will never exist again in this country. I say “thank God”. If you don’t support one of the compromises with your vote you will end up with another Obama and that’s the reality of it. So I think your idea of creating this electable, pure, uncompromised candidate is nice but unrealistic and very counterproductive.

 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
JWK its coming like it or not. Best get ready to see a decline in the quality of life across America in the coming years. The rest of the world has spoken – Americans have too Much Wealth, it’s not fair.
And our children and grandchildren will pay the price! Many have already lost their jobs to illegal entrants and are now receiving foods stamps.


JWK



We are here today and gone tomorrow, but what is most important is what we do in between, and is what our children will inherit and remember us by.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I actually think that all immigration should be halted until a solution is found and we can get a realistic grasp on the numbers that are already in the US.
Until then rounding them up and tossing them over an imaginary line is an exercise in futility.

Rounding them up and tossing them over an imaginary line? How about the following?


Secure the border

Severely punish employees who knowingly hire illegal entrants

Cut off all welfare to households who harbor illegal entrants

Forbid state issued drivers licenses to illegal entrants

Immediately deport illegal entrants when convicted of a crime, or discovered during normal policing actions

Enforce a new law that any illegal entrants identified in our country after two months of the law's enactment may never enter the United States again or obtain a green card

And, start enforcing existing laws!



JWK




To support Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or John Kasich is to support a continuance of Obama's illegal immigration tyranny which includes giving legal status and work permits to tens of millions who have invaded our borders!

 

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Yes but this candidate you are speaking of does not exist. The country moved on, evolved or whatever you like to call it and there are no electable candidates Johnwk is looking for. In fact I personally don’t want candidates that 100% fit his la-la land. Things have changed, our understanding on many issues changed and that’s only normal.
What you are suggesting, an electable candidate without compromise from the hard core, rigid religious right, does not exist and will never exist again in this country. I say “thank God”. If you don’t support one of the compromises with your vote you will end up with another Obama and that’s the reality of it. So I think your idea of creating this electable, pure, uncompromised candidate is nice but unrealistic and very counterproductive.

Gee, that reference to religion came out of nowhere. I couldn't care less about "social issues" one way or the other. Unfortunately, the problem for the Republican Party is that decades of studying voting patterns and attitudes has told them that they need to appeal to a contingent of religious voters in the south and mid west in order to have a snowball's chance in hell of winning. Without that religious appeal, those lower income voters would just vote for the Democrats promising more handouts. If you could tell the Republicans how to win an election without being more and more like the Democrats, I am sure they would happily provide you a very high paid strategy job in their organization. BTW, your comment about "pure, uncompromised candidate" illustrates how we are drifting left. The fact that a candidate who would have 50 years been viewed as a "somewhat conservative" is now viewed as a "hard core" or "uncompromised" conservative shows that the yard markers on the playing field have shifted radically left. If the conservatives keep compromising away their positions before negotiations with the left even begin, while the left feels emboldened to move further left as the Republicans themselves move further left, any hope of moving to the right over the long term will be gone.
 

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Rounding them up and tossing them over an imaginary line? How about the following?


Secure the border

Severely punish employees who knowingly hire illegal entrants

Cut off all welfare to households who harbor illegal entrants

Forbid state issued drivers licenses to illegal entrants

Immediately deport illegal entrants when convicted of a crime, or discovered during normal policing actions

Enforce a new law that any illegal entrants identified in our country after two months of the law's enactment may never enter the United States again or obtain a green card



And, start enforcing existing laws!




JWK




To support Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or John Kasich is to support a continuance of Obama's illegal immigration tyranny which includes giving legal status and work permits to tens of millions who have invaded our borders!

Lets add a 50% excise tax on all money wires over our southern border if by someone not a US citizen. Watch them line up to go home.
 

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Perhaps people need to get off their butts and get active in the Republican Party and help drive the party to nominate some decent candidates. Sitting on a couch and spouting a trite saying about having to vote for the lesser two evils is just helping the liberal progressives push us ever more left. I suppose if the candidates were Hitler and Mussolini some would say that everyone needs to pick one to support because those are the candidates and one needs to "live in the real world" and support the lesser to two evils. (Yes, I know the come back: "that is not the same thing." But it is, just to a more stark degree, which is the point of arguing by analogy.)
Maybe YOU should get off your butt and get active in the Republican party. All you do is ***** and moan incessantly about how much you are taxed, and how much you despise the middle class and how stupid, lazy and uninformed people like me (and I'm sure 99 percent of the members of this site) are.
 

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Rounding them up and tossing them over an imaginary line? How about the following?


Secure the border

Severely punish employees who knowingly hire illegal entrants

Cut off all welfare to households who harbor illegal entrants

Forbid state issued drivers licenses to illegal entrants

Immediately deport illegal entrants when convicted of a crime, or discovered during normal policing actions

Enforce a new law that any illegal entrants identified in our country after two months of the law's enactment may never enter the United States again or obtain a green card

And, start enforcing existing laws!



JWK




To support Ben Carson, Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio or John Kasich is to support a continuance of Obama's illegal immigration tyranny which includes giving legal status and work permits to tens of millions who have invaded our borders!

If you have a pipe leaking you first stop the leak(Close the boarders) then you repair it(Toss out the criminals & illegals) I don't think there is a perfect candidate all all the Repuplican candidates would have been Democrates 30 years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter #19 (Edited)
If you have a pipe leaking you first stop the leak(Close the boarders) then you repair it(Toss out the criminals & illegals) I don't think there is a perfect candidate all all the Repuplican candidates would have been Democrates 30 years ago.
But Carson has told us how he intends to make repairs and it ignores the best interests of America's general welfare.


Does Carson not care about the millions of American citizens who have lost their jobs to illegal aliens and are now unemployed and receiving food stamps to feed their families? Does Carson not care about the devastating social and financial consequences suffered by American citizens from illegal and legal immigrants? Does Carson not realize our children and grandchildren will pay the price for his compassion toward illegal entrants?


JWK


We are here today and gone tomorrow, but what is most important is what we do in between, and is what our children will inherit and remember us by.
 

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Perhaps people need to get off their butts and get active in the Republican Party and help drive the party to nominate some decent candidates. Sitting on a couch and spouting a trite saying about having to vote for the lesser two evils is just helping the liberal progressives push us ever more left. I suppose if the candidates were Hitler and Mussolini some would say that everyone needs to pick one to support because those are the candidates and one needs to "live in the real world" and support the lesser to two evils. (Yes, I know the come back: "that is not the same thing." But it is, just to a more stark degree, which is the point of arguing by analogy.)
If you're dissatisfied with the current field of 15 or so GOP candidates, I couldn't agree more: get off your butt and "get active in the Republican Party and help drive the party to nominate some decent candidates". Rather than simply whining about all the candidates you should, IMO, help facilitate change by driving the GOP towards a candidate you can support. I love it! :thumbsup: As for me, there are several GOP candidates I'm quite content with (including Carson, Rubio, and Kasich.
 
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