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Hello everyone, im doing some thinking about what improvments i can make to my tackle for targeting tuna next year. I fish primarily on head boats in NJ canyons. Ill be looking for two new calstar rods, and had a few questions about them. What is the difference between their Eglass blanks, and the graphighter blanks, and how does this difference relate to the action, and weight of the rod ? I Have an avet lx 6/3 that i use as my 50lb class reel for flatlining dead baits, or livelineing baits in the morning , and the OTI rod i was using it on snapped when setting my drag to 15 lbs after getting my reel back from service this winter. I was thinking of going to a Calstar GF700mh cut down from the butt to 6'6". My other setup id like some feedback on is a rod/reell i will use for swords. Ill be getting an avet exw30/2, and was thinking of pairing it to a Calstar gf 770xh (new rail rod blank) cut down to 6' That leads me to my next question. What are some of your thoughts of cutting blanks, and these two in particular. Wasnt sure where to cut the sword rod from tip, butt, or both. Keep in mind i wont be building these rods, Kevin aka Fish Poison will, but would still like to learn about the whole process as its something id like to start doing in the future. Thanks in advance
 

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you should go to your builder, who ever he is. bend the blanks and he can explain the good and bad about each blank., and what may work better for you.
that is part of what you are paying for in a custom. your builders input.
and knowledge of blanks and componets.
also keep in mind there are other blanks out there.
its great to be able to compare.
cutting blanks is ok.

i will tell you there are differances in the blanks, weight, action,recovery.price.
The Eglass, is basically just E glass. thicker waller and Dia. and heavier, been around forever.
the GF have graphite layer, and make them lighter. and thinner
some guys LOVE the eglass blanks. they are cheaper,heavier, i build some
Others LOVE the GF, lighter, faster recovery, not so old school. i build alot

here is a description, from calstar.
GRAPHITER.
Our state of the art Graphite. Gray/Black composite rod blank Graphite and fiberglass from butt to tip. Grafighters are state of the art fishing rods, built with a level of strength, durability and performance unmatched! These rods are light in weight, yet provide a strong recoil for landing the biggest ones! Definitely unmatched!

FiberGlass
The fiberglass blank of choice by custom rod builders.. These traditional high quality rod blanks have set the performance standard for anglers worldwide!

but again, something your builder will and should explain.

if it was me building, the blank series you pickes is GREAT,and there are models in that series that will work VERY VERYwell. light and powerfull...I just would not suggest both the blanks models you are looking at.
but again, your builder should know what blank in that series that is a possible better choice to cut or not cut.


dont overlook the
Superseeker blanks
phenix blanks

look at the fuji HB guides, The LR's are nice also.
aftco or alps seats are nice.
Amtac Titanium frame are sweet. i use them on my 700H acid wrapped.
light, sweet.

once you commission your builder to build a rod, take the time with him to get fitted, pick the right componets, and blank for your needs.

it sounds like you want a full out custom, with cutting and fitting.
get what you want. take the time.
 

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Hello everyone, im doing some thinking about what improvments i can make to my tackle for targeting tuna next year. I fish primarily on head boats in NJ canyons. Ill be looking for two new calstar rods, and had a few questions about them. What is the difference between their Eglass blanks, and the graphighter blanks, and how does this difference relate to the action, and weight of the rod ? I Have an avet lx 6/3 that i use as my 50lb class reel for flatlining dead baits, or livelineing baits in the morning , and the OTI rod i was using it on snapped when setting my drag to 15 lbs after getting my reel back from service this winter. I was thinking of going to a Calstar GF700mh cut down from the butt to 6'6". My other setup id like some feedback on is a rod/reell i will use for swords. Ill be getting an avet exw30/2, and was thinking of pairing it to a Calstar gf 770xh (new rail rod blank) cut down to 6' That leads me to my next question. What are some of your thoughts of cutting blanks, and these two in particular. Wasnt sure where to cut the sword rod from tip, butt, or both. Keep in mind i wont be building these rods, Kevin aka Fish Poison will, but would still like to learn about the whole process as its something id like to start doing in the future. Thanks in advance

I bought a whole fleet of rods last year. I was thinking that I want the graphiter blanks after talking to a customer builder from florida (very well known) at a boat show.

I went in to talk to Kevin Bogan and to get a price from him. 45 minutes later he had gone over the good and bad of every type of material and why you would, or would not want it in certain rods.

When it came down to fishing our canyons - I went with the Calstar E glass XXH and XH blanks at variuous lengths.

I wont pretend to know how to explain it as I am sure the real rod builders including Kevin will chime in. If you have a chance - stop in to Kevins shop - it will all become clear. He will put different rods in your hands, let you bend, and explain the hype VS reality.
 

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The straw that broke the Camels back!

Eglass is 'Fiberglass', Graphite, carbon is a material that is similar, but is lighter in weight. The flaws in comparison are as follows; The tackle industry has embraced "Graphite" as the new "updated, space age" material since for around thirty years. Both materials after being cured pocess one similar characteristic in rod blanks. That is MODULAS. When you flex a rod blank is stores energy the more it is flexed, and when pressure is taken away, the rod blank goes back to it's original straight form. The "resistance" to bending is referred to as Modulas. Cured Graphite fibers are "stiffer". The industry states that the stiffness lends to greater "sensitivity". With rods designed for 6lb, 12lb 20 lb test it has aonly a 'slight' edge'. In rods from about 30 lb test and above, it simply isnt true. I have always said that sensitivity is an ability, not a product. This is my opinion.
The industry has always claimed that Graphite is "stronger". that is true according the the ones trying to sell it. The "breakage" of graphite rods by any manufacturer is very high, while with Glass, it is very low. This is a fact. The reason is that graphite fibers do not have the 'elastic' qualities that allow the rod blank to bend or stretch 'as far' as fiberglass.
anyone reading this, I hit the send button, I will continue
continued
As for strength, it is no contest, Glass is stronger. Anyone care to do a poll? Ask all anglers how many graphite rods have they broken, as compared to how many glass rods they have broken. I would bet it would be about a 4/1 ratio, favoring e glass.
Why does a fishing rod break? lets assume first that it has not been accidentaly damaged; hit aginst a hard object like a boat cleat, railng, which may cause a fracture, that later results into a 'break'. Rods generall break due to the angle in which they are 'bent'. If a rod is under pressure, and the tip is lifted to high, whereas the tip is being bent in the direction of the butt, the upper third of the rod cannot handle the same pressure as the butt, and the rod will break in the upper portion of the shaft. When a person breaks a rod while testing drag at say 15 lbs, it is not usually the 15 lbs that does it, it is usually that the rod tip was lifted to high, in relaion to the butt. While fishing this is called "High Stcking", a very popular term on the West Coast for decades. The material is generally not at fault here, glass or graphite.
Shock. An angler is fishing on a wreck/rocks, lifts the tip FAST to strike on the fish and BAMMMM the rod breaks as the sinker is stuck in the wreck. Party boats see this regulary. Graphite does not have the ability to 'absorb' shock. Many here know that I am not a fan of a lot of the blanks introduced for "Tuna Jigging" over the past several years. I am quite aware that they have caught some awesome sized fish, but are they as durable as claimed? I see that they are yet another breed of "new carbon". The fact is, every two years someone has come along with a new carbon for the past thirty years, and breakage is still frequent. I know of skilled rod builders, skilled Captains with very good reputations that have used this new breed and have also found a good deal of breakage. It's strong or its not. What few people here understand is that in sourcing blanks and materials one thing is common no matter who the mfgr is. That blanks have a markup of 4-6X their original cost. That is a MFGR/brand selling blanks may have payed to an OEM $25-35 for the blank. They are selling the blank for $180-200 retail. Likewise rods are manufactured in Asia at a cost of $50-100 and are being sold for $300-500. If breakage were to occur they can simply supply you with a new rod or blank and they are still laughing on the way to the bank.. Sure anyone can say we have the "next generation", after all they have been saying that for a long time and people continue to bite on the claim. Every advertisemnet says the same thing, lightweight, powerful, strong. The fact is, these new materials are no better than the next. I know some make claims like "we are the only ones with this material" Thats total BS. Anyone with $10,000. in their pocket can get the Exact, I repeat the exact rods, blanks from Wei Hai China as the next guy. We are led to believe that Japan and Korea are innovators, those with the best products. The Chinese have them beat by a mile.
Eglass/Grapfiter. The difference is that eglass will generally have thicer walls of material. This is what makes them durable.
Graphiters are made with eglass as well. They use thinner walls in the butt area, thicker in the tip area, and then apply an outer payer of grahite, called a "Flag" to give the blank strength in the butt without adding 'excess' weight to the blank. One might argue that the rod blank weighs 2 oz more than a Graphite blank, but the fact is, it is far more durable. My arguement is, how will you catch a big Tuna if you are worried about a few ounces.
Which model? The model should be picked based on line value. Common ratings are 30-80, 40-100, 50-120 lb.. If you are fishing 80lb test and are looking to load up with drag pressure, a 30-80 is the wrong choice. Match the line, drag pressure to the blanks rating.
Hardware I see more rods than ever using "lightweight" harware. Thin framed guides, graphite reel seats, carbon blanks, and while it may be "Cute", it wont hold up. I wil soon post photos of how 3 footed guides commonly found on tuna rod break under pressure, or get torn out beneath their windings, graphite seats that 'crack' under pressure. Likewise, I see a lot of Fuji brand guides on these rods. If you source these guide sets you will see that they generally cost in the range of $80-110 per set. How many of you except the "rusting issues"? It doesnt happen? the fact is it does. A rod sells for $300-500 and the guides are rusting, thats a good one.
I would like to hear more comments on this topic as well. I kept other brands names out of this, other than the brand mentioned, Calstar. That is what I sell. Failure is rare, if at all.
 

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These is no doubt a "graphite" rod will snap easier when highsticked or fished wrong.
there are different levels of graphite. different amount of graphite in blanks.
some have "a little" graphite, calstar GF ..to make the rod lighter. they are more durable.

than the higher content of graphite, the more care need to be taken when fishing.


Talking strictly Calstar.
THIS IS FROM THEIR SITE ABOUT THE
GRAPHITER.
Our state of the art Graphite. Gray/Black composite rod blank Graphite and fiberglass from butt to tip. Grafighters are state of the art fishing rods, built with a level of strength, durability and performance unmatched! These rods are light in weight, yet provide a strong recoil for landing the biggest ones! Definitely unmatched!

some guys will choose to use "state of the art" CALSTARS.
maybe because their strength, durability, and performance is unmatched...their words.

Obviously a BIG THICK EGLASS CALSTAR STICK will take more ABUSE..
no one will argue that.

I am sure kevin you build both...so...how many calstar GF were returned broken to you last year?
were they abused?


Guides or hardware.

YES the FUJI are more money a set.
and i Always tell the guys.
if you want a CHEAPER ROD i will NOT use Fuji guides.its that simple.

you can see the prices of the rods change when compared.
some use FUJI SIC guides, for a price.
some use HD ceramic guides..for a price.

ask the builder to price fuji, and to price HD ceramic.

and yes it maybe be cool to use calstars state of the art blanks with Fuji Sic guides.
some budget only allow for Eglass and HD no name guides.
i do both.

there is nothing wrong with either rod, both will work, the fish dont know.
.
but when pricing....just compare

SAME BLANK,SAME GUIDES (and amount and size ), SAME THREAD,SAME SEAT,SAME GIMBAL ...same buttwrap,same fish,same name.ect..

.
 

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I have 4 calstar graphiter 700XH rods now. I left them at 7 ft and they have
served me well. I don't baby them and they have taken a beating and still function properly. I fish them with 80 lb rated for up to 100lbs great blanks IMO.

not as expensive as the new bread of "super rods". and they will last, nice and light with good action.
 

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You fish headboats for tuna so I would go for the most durable as it is not like fishing a small boat.

Also you should know some of these guys are not rod builders but more like salesman. The rods are made off site not in their "shops".
 

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These is no doubt a "graphite" rod will snap easier when highsticked or fished wrong.
there are different levels of graphite. different amount of graphite in blanks.
some have "a little" graphite, calstar GF ..to make the rod lighter. they are more durable.

than the higher content of graphite, the more care need to be taken when fishing.


Talking strictly Calstar.
THIS IS FROM THEIR SITE ABOUT THE
GRAPHITER.
Our state of the art Graphite. Gray/Black composite rod blank Graphite and fiberglass from butt to tip. Grafighters are state of the art fishing rods, built with a level of strength, durability and performance unmatched! These rods are light in weight, yet provide a strong recoil for landing the biggest ones! Definitely unmatched!

some guys will choose to use "state of the art" CALSTARS.
maybe because their strength, durability, and performance is unmatched...their words.

Obviously a BIG THICK EGLASS CALSTAR STICK will take more ABUSE..
no one will argue that.

I am sure kevin you build both...so...how many calstar GF were returned broken to you last year?
were they abused?


Guides or hardware.

YES the FUJI are more money a set.
and i Always tell the guys.
if you want a CHEAPER ROD i will NOT use Fuji guides.its that simple.

you can see the prices of the rods change when compared.
some use FUJI SIC guides, for a price.
some use HD ceramic guides..for a price.

ask the builder to price fuji, and to price HD ceramic.

and yes it maybe be cool to use calstars state of the art blanks with Fuji Sic guides.
some budget only allow for Eglass and HD no name guides.
i do both.

there is nothing wrong with either rod, both will work, the fish dont know.
.
but when pricing....just compare

SAME BLANK,SAME GUIDES (and amount and size ), SAME THREAD,SAME SEAT,SAME GIMBAL ...same buttwrap,same fish,same name.ect..

.
Paul, I have only gotten one Calstar Graphiter back in the last 6 years. How about you? They dont have a reputation for breaking. How many Spinal's, OTI's, Blackhole etc have you seen broken, or have been told broke? There is no question in my mind that the calstar graphiters are far more duarable than any of the others mentioned. Not even close. In fact the claims that Calstar make are proven. Calstar blanks have caught more tuna on the west coast than all other blank mfgrs combined.
My point with Fuji is that I cant understand why someone would pay $90 for a set of guides that rust. I have here in my store a spin rod, a special "Japanese" rod. The guy paid $800 for it. The Fuji guides are rusting, and they are "loosening" under their windings. $800 junk as far as I'm concerned. If you paid $300 or more for a rod that came from Asia, you got hosed.
 

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kevin, i LOVE the graphiters. we use alot GF blanks,
dont really have returns of those,
which is why i asked how many GRAPHITErs you had returned.
i wont go into the other brands being we are talking calstar .


but you did post this..

The industry has always claimed that Graphite is "stronger". that is true according the the ones trying to sell it. The "breakage" of graphite rods by any manufacturer is very high, while with Glass, it is very low. This is a fact. The reason is that graphite fibers do not have the 'elastic' qualities that allow the rod blank to bend or stretch 'as far' as fiberglass.

There are some good graphite blanks,or composite blanks and fished right are VERY NICE.

i have repaired some japaneese rods that cost alot of money.
It does seem that some guys will pay to much for anything, i see it all the time..
 

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Difference in rod materials etc.

E glass when compared to graphite as a rod building material is certainly controversial in some aspects of application.
However when properly designed graphite rods excel in many applications including big game applications as witnessed by the numerous catches tallied by many anglers in recent years.
Previously mentioned the material make up of many graphite blanks are gauged in part by the make up of the material based in part On the modulus of the material being used.
That's only a part of this equation as the modulus only represents a number that basically reflects the strain to weight ration of any given tubular structure,in our discussion a rod blank.
IMG graphite one of the first represented an intermediate modulus graphite product that was a middle of the road modulus 43m to 48 m strain weight, one of the best choices sansIM6 .
In actual uses graphite choice in rod design, can be a wise choice . It's sometimes over simplified to compare qualities of both materials.
One just look at the size of the fish being taken on graphite fly rods, my buddy landed an estimated 400 # blue marlin on a graphite fly tod , so one can readily understand it's a great material when properly designed !
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks guys

id like to thank everyone for the in depth, and timely responses. I will be going calstar for a couple rods this season. I will have them built before the NJ bluefin show up. Kevin and paul thanks alot, ill probably be seeing both of you for some products this winter.
 

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E glass when compared to graphite as a rod building material is certainly controversial in some aspects of application.
However when properly designed graphite rods excel in many applications including big game applications as witnessed by the numerous catches tallied by many anglers in recent years.
Previously mentioned the material make up of many graphite blanks are gauged in part by the make up of the material based in part On the modulus of the material being used.
That's only a part of this equation as the modulus only represents a number that basically reflects the strain to weight ration of any given tubular structure,in our discussion a rod blank.
IMG graphite one of the first represented an intermediate modulus graphite product that was a middle of the road modulus 43m to 48 m strain weight, one of the best choices sansIM6 .
In actual uses graphite choice in rod design, can be a wise choice . It's sometimes over simplified to compare qualities of both materials.
One just look at the size of the fish being taken on graphite fly rods, my buddy landed an estimated 400 # blue marlin on a graphite fly tod , so one can readily understand it's a great material when properly designed !
Lou, some very good points. As you know modulas has increased from 26M, to about 33m, to 43m as you have stated. That is, the mfgrs claim that each is an improvement. The problem here is that as modulas/stiffness increases, so does the inability for the fibers to stretch. Give a skilled fisherman the higher strain graphite and he can certainly do a lot with that rod. The drawback is no one, no matter how skilled will really know for sure when to 'back off'. That is, if he looses patience, ther is always that chance that the rod will discontinue flexing and then break. A point of interest, many companies actually use eglass live bait blanks for 13-15 wgt fly rods. Not to say your friend didnt have a graphite.
Paul, Thats my arguement. I dont want to build a rod twice. I never get the Calstars back, eglass or graphiters. As for the Japanese rods $600-$800, it is evident in the components used, and the workmanship that they are nothing but high priced junk. Any hobbiest rod builder can do a much better job.
I'll make a prediction. I believe you will see a lot more top boats going back to longer jig rods, 6'6", 7' within the next year. Glass or composite.
 

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Graphite / composite / e glass

Kevin ,
The basic ingredient that literally holds this all together is the scrim , pre peg material. Graphite as I understand it is graded as stated, however what has advanced greatly is the resin systems. These are vastly superior to a mere 5 years ago .
They incorporate a whole new load capacity into a graphite rod, again if designed correctly they will certainly pass the test to hold up quite well in all aspects of rod performance..
The obvious offshore big game uses of thismproduct is in it's infancy & will be steady proved over coming years to match inshore rod performance where it has proven itself .
The load ranges , lightweight , tapers , casting ability alone all favor graphite due to it's weight alone,
In the drop & reel game it really enhances the ability of any angler to monitor bites & manifests itself on overall solid hooking performance.
I personally own several offshore graphite troll , chunk & bottom rods that I have fished for over 15 seasons without any failure , made by an industry leader perhaps ahead of there time!
 

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Kevin ,
The basic ingredient that literally holds this all together is the scrim , pre peg material. Graphite as I understand it is graded as stated, however what has advanced greatly is the resin systems. These are vastly superior to a mere 5 years ago .
They incorporate a whole new load capacity into a graphite rod, again if designed correctly they will certainly pass the test to hold up quite well in all aspects of rod performance..
The obvious offshore big game uses of thismproduct is in it's infancy & will be steady proved over coming years to match inshore rod performance where it has proven itself .
The load ranges , lightweight , tapers , casting ability alone all favor graphite due to it's weight alone,
In the drop & reel game it really enhances the ability of any angler to monitor bites & manifests itself on overall solid hooking performance.
I personally own several offshore graphite troll , chunk & bottom rods that I have fished for over 15 seasons without any failure , made by an industry leader perhaps ahead of there time!
Lou, I understand what you are saying. Respectfully, I just disagree. As I said, the same claims come along every few years. Most products with the "claims' have come and gone, and new ones follow. Just two years ago I saw a rod company saying they had the new "Space age" material. [dont want to mention names] In two years they are already onto their fourth new "space age" material. History repeats itself
 

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I have been slowly swtching all of our rods to the Calstar Boomer series Glass rods, they're the best rods I've ever used,I'm about half way there, and adding a planner rod in this seaon that will give us 5, just 4 more togo. I prefer the glass over the graphite but they're both excellent rods, length since your on a head boat there's plenty of great advice on here. We also went to some of the short bent butts for our chunkling rods and it's a great match up, 5'6" with Aftco wind-on rollers, Joe from Terminator made us up a pair last winter that are excellent.
 
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