Do you remember about five or six years ago when a 45+ foot boat off of Little Egg Inlet was heading south on automatic pilot and ran over a 21 or so foot boat and killed ,i seem to remember, three old timers that were drift fishing? I would like to know if a course will teach COMMON SENSE or how to avoid dumb stupid captains..I do not think common sense can be learned.
common sense
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ALL 3 GUYS WERE FROM CLEMENTON. THEY WERE NOT OLD.
THE GUY WAS DOING HIS MYSTRESS NOT HIS WIFE.
THOUGHT WITH THE WRONG HEAD.
THE GUY WAS DOING HIS MYSTRESS NOT HIS WIFE.
THOUGHT WITH THE WRONG HEAD.
Was there really an extramarital component to that accident? I didn't hear that. That is a GOOD one! Only funny in that it must have been an extra source of punishment, from his wife.
No, often you cannot teach someone something they should already know.
It should never be referred to as COMMON sense, when it is actually UNCOMMON sense.
No, often you cannot teach someone something they should already know.
It should never be referred to as COMMON sense, when it is actually UNCOMMON sense.
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Here's at least what the news had....
Boater charged in deaths at sea is called reckless
By KIRK MOORE and CAROL GORGA WILLIAMS
Gannett News Service
DOVER TWP.
The skipper of a Point Pleasant Beach-based party boat says he had a close call with Barry M. Flowers less than two hours before the yachtsman slammed into a smaller boat off Long Beach Island, killing three Camden County men.
Willie Egerter III, captain of the charter boat Dauntless, said he saw Flowers' boat coming at him on the morning of the fatal crash and had to back up his boat to avoid a collision.
Egerter already has been interviewed by investigators, and his account is among 19 reports or statements turned over to Flowers' defense attorneys.
Flowers, piloting his Viking motor cruiser Permission VI, never responded to radio messages warning he was on a collision course, Egerter told investigators.
"He came by me very close. I had to back the boat down," Egerter said in an interview with Gannett News Service.
Flowers pleaded innocent last Monday in Superior Court here to three counts of death by vessel. He also pleaded guilty to one count of aggravated assault - another South Jersey man aboard the smaller boat was injured.
Judge James N. Citta has set Oct. 1 as the next day to review the case. The case is being watched closely by the boating community.
Ocean County Prosecutor E. David Millard has said the Permission VI was heading south near full throttle last Oct. 12 when it ran across the stern of the Rosie II, whose occupants were drift-fishing.
Two Clementon men, boat owner Thomas Decker, 58, and Donald Shiko, 75, died in the crash. Another Clementon man, Carlo Laterza, 71, was never found and has been declared dead. They had launched the boat from a Little Egg Harbor marina to go fishing about two miles east of Beach Haven.
A fourth angler, Charles Hartley, 77, of Turnersville, survived the crash with a broken ankle and other injuries.
It was a clear, calm day when the accident happened around 11:45 a.m.
Egerter said he had his customers fishing for black sea bass and porgies on a wreck three miles off Manasquan Inlet around 10:30 that morning, when he spotted two large yachts heading south toward the Dauntless.
Flowers' boat, a 60-foot Viking, was in the lead, and Egerter said he got on the marine radio to hail the oncoming boats and advise them he was anchored and fishing.
"The second boat was about a mile or two behind him." Egerter said. The second boat acknowledged the call, its captain telling Egerter he could see the Dauntless, and altered course, he said.
But the Viking kept on course, Egerter said, and after another attempt at a radio hail he began releasing anchor line to move in reverse as quickly as possible.
"He was making at least 17 knots" when the Viking passed by the bow of the Dauntless, so close that Egerter said he could read the boat's nameplate on the side of the bridge. Egerter said he thought he saw someone standing on the bridge, with his back to him.
Egerter said he called again on the radio: "I told him he was responsible for his wake and he was awfully close."
There was no reply, Egerter said. But the Coast Guard station at Manasquan Inlet came on the air and asked the Dauntless captain if he was in trouble. "I told them the situation was already taken care of," he said.
When Egerter heard of the collision off Beach Haven, he said, he realized "that guy was here an hour and a half ago."
Much of the death-by-vessel case is likely to center on whether the autopilot on the Permission VI was engaged, and if it was, whether Flowers and his wife, Lois, were maintaining a lookout as the boat self-steered. The Flowerses, who were unhurt in the collision, live in Livingston, Essex County, and in Jupiter, Fla. They were en route from Monmouth Beach to Ocean City, Md., at the time of the crash.
Flowers is a member of the Atlantis Yacht Club, Monmouth Beach, where he has been commodore since Nov. 1. Lois Flowers wasn't charged in the case.
Autopilots can be linked electronically to chart-reading devices and Global Positioning System receivers to verify a boat's course and position. But autopilots don't have the capability to interface with radar systems and alter course to avoid collision, so boat operators are required to maintain a lookout, experts say.
The prosecutor's office hired a naval engineer to examine the ship after the crash and had the computer equipment reviewed by the State Police High-Tech Crime Analysis Unit.
The Flowerses have told investigators they were on the bridge and maintaining a lookout. That is a contention doubted by lawyers for the victims' families, according to Frank D. Allen, a Haddonfield lawyer who represents Hartley and the Shiko family.
Barry Flowers has declined comment. In a cross-complaint in one of the civil cases filed against him, he has asserted that Decker's boat was "unseaworthy in that its engine was inoperable, its sound signaling devices were inoperable and its VHF radio was inoperable."
Boater charged in deaths at sea is called reckless
By KIRK MOORE and CAROL GORGA WILLIAMS
Gannett News Service
DOVER TWP.
The skipper of a Point Pleasant Beach-based party boat says he had a close call with Barry M. Flowers less than two hours before the yachtsman slammed into a smaller boat off Long Beach Island, killing three Camden County men.
Willie Egerter III, captain of the charter boat Dauntless, said he saw Flowers' boat coming at him on the morning of the fatal crash and had to back up his boat to avoid a collision.
Egerter already has been interviewed by investigators, and his account is among 19 reports or statements turned over to Flowers' defense attorneys.
Flowers, piloting his Viking motor cruiser Permission VI, never responded to radio messages warning he was on a collision course, Egerter told investigators.
"He came by me very close. I had to back the boat down," Egerter said in an interview with Gannett News Service.
Flowers pleaded innocent last Monday in Superior Court here to three counts of death by vessel. He also pleaded guilty to one count of aggravated assault - another South Jersey man aboard the smaller boat was injured.
Judge James N. Citta has set Oct. 1 as the next day to review the case. The case is being watched closely by the boating community.
Ocean County Prosecutor E. David Millard has said the Permission VI was heading south near full throttle last Oct. 12 when it ran across the stern of the Rosie II, whose occupants were drift-fishing.
Two Clementon men, boat owner Thomas Decker, 58, and Donald Shiko, 75, died in the crash. Another Clementon man, Carlo Laterza, 71, was never found and has been declared dead. They had launched the boat from a Little Egg Harbor marina to go fishing about two miles east of Beach Haven.
A fourth angler, Charles Hartley, 77, of Turnersville, survived the crash with a broken ankle and other injuries.
It was a clear, calm day when the accident happened around 11:45 a.m.
Egerter said he had his customers fishing for black sea bass and porgies on a wreck three miles off Manasquan Inlet around 10:30 that morning, when he spotted two large yachts heading south toward the Dauntless.
Flowers' boat, a 60-foot Viking, was in the lead, and Egerter said he got on the marine radio to hail the oncoming boats and advise them he was anchored and fishing.
"The second boat was about a mile or two behind him." Egerter said. The second boat acknowledged the call, its captain telling Egerter he could see the Dauntless, and altered course, he said.
But the Viking kept on course, Egerter said, and after another attempt at a radio hail he began releasing anchor line to move in reverse as quickly as possible.
"He was making at least 17 knots" when the Viking passed by the bow of the Dauntless, so close that Egerter said he could read the boat's nameplate on the side of the bridge. Egerter said he thought he saw someone standing on the bridge, with his back to him.
Egerter said he called again on the radio: "I told him he was responsible for his wake and he was awfully close."
There was no reply, Egerter said. But the Coast Guard station at Manasquan Inlet came on the air and asked the Dauntless captain if he was in trouble. "I told them the situation was already taken care of," he said.
When Egerter heard of the collision off Beach Haven, he said, he realized "that guy was here an hour and a half ago."
Much of the death-by-vessel case is likely to center on whether the autopilot on the Permission VI was engaged, and if it was, whether Flowers and his wife, Lois, were maintaining a lookout as the boat self-steered. The Flowerses, who were unhurt in the collision, live in Livingston, Essex County, and in Jupiter, Fla. They were en route from Monmouth Beach to Ocean City, Md., at the time of the crash.
Flowers is a member of the Atlantis Yacht Club, Monmouth Beach, where he has been commodore since Nov. 1. Lois Flowers wasn't charged in the case.
Autopilots can be linked electronically to chart-reading devices and Global Positioning System receivers to verify a boat's course and position. But autopilots don't have the capability to interface with radar systems and alter course to avoid collision, so boat operators are required to maintain a lookout, experts say.
The prosecutor's office hired a naval engineer to examine the ship after the crash and had the computer equipment reviewed by the State Police High-Tech Crime Analysis Unit.
The Flowerses have told investigators they were on the bridge and maintaining a lookout. That is a contention doubted by lawyers for the victims' families, according to Frank D. Allen, a Haddonfield lawyer who represents Hartley and the Shiko family.
Barry Flowers has declined comment. In a cross-complaint in one of the civil cases filed against him, he has asserted that Decker's boat was "unseaworthy in that its engine was inoperable, its sound signaling devices were inoperable and its VHF radio was inoperable."
GOOD INFO CAPT SCOTT. I WAS TOLD THAT NONSENSE BY ONE OF THE FATALITEIS NEIGHBORS. RUMORS WILL FLY.
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As bad as it seems...I always say that if you haven't nearly run over something or someone...you haven't spent enough time on the water...
Most transiting is pure boredom interupted by moments of sheer terror... (same with airline pilots)...
With that boredom comes complacency and inattention...with inattention comes the possibility of running into something...
But the earlier reports of this guy Flowers pretty well nailed down what an idiot he was being...and NOT paying attention while transiting in a heavily boated area spelled danger from the word go...
Most transiting is pure boredom interupted by moments of sheer terror... (same with airline pilots)...
With that boredom comes complacency and inattention...with inattention comes the possibility of running into something...
But the earlier reports of this guy Flowers pretty well nailed down what an idiot he was being...and NOT paying attention while transiting in a heavily boated area spelled danger from the word go...
if you consider a crab pot something ok.but i never was ever close to a serious accident on the water.if i did and it was my fault the 4 sale would be in the window
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phish4fun...I meant it like you driving a car a lot...eventually a fender bender or at least a close call or two...it just happens...close calls are where you are paying attention just not as close as you should be...
I doubt everyone who has ever had a close call in a boat or a car sells it immediately.
The difference between a close call and a serious accident is usually some pretty gross negligence...but it's still a close call....
[ 03-04-2006, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Capt. Scott ]
I doubt everyone who has ever had a close call in a boat or a car sells it immediately.
The difference between a close call and a serious accident is usually some pretty gross negligence...but it's still a close call....
[ 03-04-2006, 07:50 PM: Message edited by: Capt. Scott ]
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847 Posts
We had to move our boat out of the way last season while we were shark fishing out near the cigar.I was scarery to scramble at the last second,could not hail the boat on the radio.If we had'nt moved he would have ran us over for sure. The boat was heading in with a course toward Ocean City. There was no numbers or name on the boat it was a larger Hatteress, as it went by in VERY close, NO one the bridge,or in the cock pit,just no sighs of life at all.I thought about chasing him down,but did'nt.
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CAPT.SCOTT--IS THE FLOWERS GUY PROBABLY GOING TO GET A HARD SLAP ON THE HAND 30 DAYS AND PROBATION??
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I don't know Biggest...I thought he got 6 months... you know that it was a minimum security...
Probably a whole lot comfier than what out ladies and gents have goin on in Iraq and Afhanistan for sure!!!!
Prbably for a guy like that just being drug through the whole police/court mess and being called a colplete loser for the rest of his life is a lot more punishment than what some minimum security prison has to offer...probably shared a cell with Martha Stewart and discussed recipes and screwing emolyees all day.
Probably a whole lot comfier than what out ladies and gents have goin on in Iraq and Afhanistan for sure!!!!
Prbably for a guy like that just being drug through the whole police/court mess and being called a colplete loser for the rest of his life is a lot more punishment than what some minimum security prison has to offer...probably shared a cell with Martha Stewart and discussed recipes and screwing emolyees all day.
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