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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How at a 16" size limit could we grow the biomass but at 18" we can only maintain the same?
 

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Dont think too hard about it...they have no clue.....all i can say is, put bullsh!t numbers in and you get bullsh!t numbers out....
 

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Yeah Hooker, you would think by now all those just under the limit by a quarter of an inch flounder that I could have fill my boat up five years ago should have turned into 5 to 7 pound flounder that I could fill my boat up with. Where do they all go when they grow a quarter of an inch bigger then the limit??????

And my other question is, how does the aspirin know where to go???

:confused:
 

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The way I see some people removing those 1/4" short flounder then release they are ending up as crab food.

Would be better to go with the 8-16" and be done with it. Most likely the end mortality rate poundage would be the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It really was an honest question... Was the rate of growth to the biomass set up to change each year?
 

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I have spoken with some educated people about fluke, bass, tuna, etc... and the science behind fisheries management is vague at best. The variables that influence fisheries from year to year are so vast that the best hypothesis is just that.... I think that commercial netting of all the fluke during the winter is the pink elephant in the room.
 

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tbush;28074) I think that commercial netting of all the fluke during the winter is the pink elephant in the room.[/QUOTE said:
BINGO....give that man a prize....you will never get that as a reason though....
 

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I have spoken with some educated people about fluke, bass, tuna, etc... and the science behind fisheries management is vague at best. The variables that influence fisheries from year to year are so vast that the best hypothesis is just that.... I think that commercial netting of all the fluke during the winter is the pink elephant in the room.
Well stated!:thumbsup: There is no way to estimate biomass. They only "guesstimate". Ditto for the weight of flounder that were harvested during a year. I have not, nor have I ever never heard, of anyone having their catch weighed. The flounder regs. make no sense at all.

It's not just fishing that has convoluted regs. Notice the flocks of turkeys running around all over South Jersey? To harvest one, you need a hunting license. On top of that, you need a permit (about $22.00). Then you are confined to a zone. On top of that, the kill has to be registered. No wonder hunters don't hunt turkeys and their numbers keep growing to the point that they are now becoming a nuisance.:mad:
 

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How at a 16" size limit could we grow the biomass but at 18" we can only maintain the same?
My thought is we are killing more fish then we think. All the throw backs we all catch and release you wonder what the survival rate really is with the undersized fish. Just a thought.
 

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the size limit for netters is 14", and they net them in their wintering grounds that were off limits years ago. Its like having landscapers mow your lawn every day and the homeowner expecting to find 8 blades of grass that are knee high- it just dont happen. The landscaper has a truck full of grass, we cant find 8 blades....

The laws are biased, unfair, and dont make sense. Everyone knows it. The regs are not scientifically based, its all politics and money. The tonnage quota goes up every year but the recreational guy gets tighter regs- that is upside down thinking.

And most will agree that there were more big flounder years ago when the recreational limit was 14". But that was also when the netting didnt happen year round.

I hate talking about this topic, it always gets me pissed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Im fully aware that 20% of our throwbacks go toward are quota & the higher the size limit the more throwbacks..ugh..


Has the comm tonage gone up in the last 10 years? If not what are we growing the biomass to?
 

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Im fully aware that 20% of our throwbacks go toward are quota & the higher the size limit the more throwbacks..ugh..


Has the comm tonage gone up in the last 10 years? If not what are we growing the biomass to?
Yes, the TOTAL tonnage quota goes up nearly every other year but that increase mostly goes to the commercial sector. The feds admit that the biomass is increasing very well but they wont tell us where it needs to be. They say "there are more flounder...but not as many as there should be". Basically, they wont tell us where the end is. In my opinion, they are phasing out the recreational guy and expect us to BUY flounder at the supermarket.

Also, a boat from North Carolina can drag our waters but the fish they catch goes towards NC's quota if they offload in their state. So they catch our fish and we suffer. If they offload in NJ if counts against our quotoa, which could put us over the tonnage limit and reduce our quoata for next year. It's screwed up. We lose either way.
 

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It's like the great race westward in the 1800's. Boats are on those winter grounds before start date. As soon as they get the radio transmission nets go down and it's sweep time.

I wonder if the draggers have boats to off load to and start a second round?
 

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Well guys I have said this before. We have a lot more fisherman fishing for flounder now. I can remember as a kid never fishing for Flounder. We went after Weakies, crockers, and Blowfish. Crockers drop off so it was weakies for years in the bay. There were plenty of them to catch. Stripers came back and so did the crockers. Still no blowfish. Weakies are not round anymore. No Seabass. Crockers are small plenty of Flounder to be caught. You can drop a line almost any where in the bay and catch Flounder. Keeper size's might be another story.

What added to this is not one thing over the years. We have had dredging in the bay. I saw grass beds destorded. Floating on the tided. Oil spills in the river. A nuclear plant added with hot water out flow. More fisherman. More netters. Boat traffic, ships and us. There has been a lot of change over the years. Some good some bad it all adds up to what we are dealing with right now. I am Not sure that adding the reefs didn't added to the change of fishing in the bay.

Yes It helped build homes for fish. Where did the fish come from? Could they have lived on a lump in the bay? Now they have free housing in the ocean. Wouldn't you move to a better house if somebody built you one? Wouldn't you get your food from a better store if the price was the same?

Nobody has proven anything with any of the regs we deal with every year. I can't say that we are getting bigger fish because of what is happen. I no I fish longer trying to catch bigger fish. Or a limit of fish. We would be able to go fishing for a couples of hours in the good old days and do just fine. Catch are limit and go home or out to lunch.

There is a hole lot to be said for letting us keep smaller fish. More people will want to go fishing. How many times have you had guys ask you" Hows the fishing being?" Before they will tell you they will go with you today. Will we kill less fish? I think so. You won't need to catch as many fish to keep your limit. So less will get killed by gut hooks. Or miss handled.
 

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The really crazy part is that the flounder for sale in NJ were netted here then, due to quotas etc, packed out in South Carolina (think Beaufort). The fluke are then put in a truck and shipped back to NJ. Its almost comical.
 

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With all that has been stated, How in a bad weather season when less commercial's and recreational's are able to "GET OUT" to fish , Than how do we overfish that years quota when less Bio-mass is caught??? ESPLAIN DAT.....
 

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when a comm vessel sells there catch they have to say where and exactly which body of water the fish where caught in..on the ocean its different zones...and the zones i believe have the quotas...so when a fish is caught in NJ it goes to NJ's quota...wether its sold in NJ or NC...Im not 100% on this..but thats definetely how it was 4 or 5 years ago when i was working on a flounder gillnet boat in NC...and they close the season down over and over again down there for flounder, for a commercial guy to fish flounder down there is a huge pain in the ***...its almost not worth it....having observers on the boat once or twice a week...god forbid you catch a turtle, then you shut the seaon down for a week just over a turtle being in your net alive...and if its dead, they try to close it down immediatly for that zone...that really sucks when you get a dead turtle...
 

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also

like i said Im not 100% on that information its just what i remember...and thats also NC not NJ i dont know what the deal is up here...i knew a couple captains that lived down in NC and flounder fished up here in the fall/winter time...made a pretty good living doing it
 
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