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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This from the Asburry Park Press..
I do not expect Capt TB will have a problem with this one......

The Hard Way


Fluke anglers called to arms over proposed modifications
Published in the Asbury Park Press 06/5/05
- advertisements -

Fluke anglers in New Jersey could face reductions in daily limits and seasons and increased minimum sizes if they do not voice enough opposition to the proposed modifications to the Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission's fluke management plan.
New Jersey harvests more fluke than any other state in the nation. Obviously any changes to the management process will be of more importance to this state than any other.

So why does the ASMFC schedule a single public meeting on modifications to the management for fluke at 6:30 p.m. on June 29, a Wednesday, in Absecon? Why not at 7:30 p.m. at Belmar or Long Branch?

The first reason that comes to mind is that the ASMFC does not want a repeat of the winter flounder hearing last February in Belmar or, worse, the striped bass meeting in Long Branch years ago.

Listening to a possible crowd of 1,000 or more angry fluke fishermen demanding that New Jersey's regulations not be tightened further is not an ASMFC hearing officer's idea of a pleasant evening.

Tony Bogan, one of New Jersey's representatives on the Mid-Atlantic Fishery Management Council, said the scheduling is not fair to the state's fluke anglers.

"The half-day boats are only just getting in at 6:30," he said. "The biggest fishery we have in the state, and only one meeting and that in Galloway Township?"

Bogan said two public meetings at a convenient hour would be a minimum when the stakes are as high as this. Three meetings, as was done with striped bass last year, would be better.

The ASMFC wants to consider modifying the management plan by subdividing the recreational coastwide allocation into regions as an option under conservation equivalency, and begin a public dialogue to discuss the ability to average multiple years of data as well as multiple years of landings.

Bogan said the establishment of regions for allocation purposes could be especially dangerous.

When New Jersey gets lumped in with other states or regions, it often loses. Porgies, blackfish and winter flounders are prime examples.

"New Jersey wouldn't fit into a regional allocation plan," Bogan said. "New York has five fish at 17 1/2 inches and Delaware has had four fish at 17 1/2 inches for quite a while."

He explained that it is hard enough in New Jersey as it is, with south Jersey and north Jersey having different needs.

"New Jersey is No. 1," Bogan said. "We've always been the biggest harvester of fluke. If there was ever a case for two hearings and giving the people a chance to speak, this is it. You're talking about fluke, this is the biggest fishery we have."

Bogan said the proposal on regional management has been put forth with no explanation, no examples of what would have occurred had it been in place in recent years, no details of contemplated regions or whether it would be mandatory or voluntary.

New Jersey has been able to live within or very near its quota for the last three years. The eight-fish limit, 16 1/2-inch minimum and season running from early May through early October has enabled the state to maintain a stable harvest.

New York, on the other hand, the second largest harvester of fluke, has exceeded its quota for two years even with a higher minimum.

"It seems unlikely that New Jersey will be anything but worse off by being lumped in with other states," Bogan said. "We have said we will look at the proposal, but being put in a region with other states having all the same regulations could be a big problem."

Bogan said fluke fishermen, and particularly professional boatmen ? party and charter boat owners and captains ? should get involved.


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:confused: :mad:
 

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Party boats rely on fares, at 3-4 fish this would be a shame and hurt thier business. I drive 100 miles each way, every weekend to fish on my own 20 foot boat. If I catch 8 fish I feel like I won the lottery. Why does politics always screw everything up?



 

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I would just like to remind everyone that you do not have to attend the ASMFC hearing to have your comments become part of the record. I'm certainly not trying to discourage anyone from attending the meeting and I hope as many people attend as possible. However, if you can not attend the hearing and would like to get your comments on record, they can be mailed in either by snail mail or by going to the ASMFC website and emailing them in.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
seabear

Thanks for the help. Could you post the addresses both snail and E-mail?

I think we should write to all the representatives at all levels of government.
I think you can go to www.nj.gov .This is just too important...

George
 

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I am only 16 yrs old, and still at my young age i have watched the gov't screw up our fishery more then anyone could imagine. Fluke/Flounder are our biggest fishery, and more or less everyones fav. fish to go for. I have enough trouble bringing home one fish for the table, I cant imagine what will happen if the sizes/limits are raised. Hopefully our voice will count, and they wont put more strict limits on us like they have on striper, blackfish, winter flounder..etc. Lets see what we can all do, and not let this happen.

Hope everyone has a good week, and is looking foward to this upcoming weekend,

Ryan
 

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Originally posted by CaptG:
See topic summer flounder meeting on featured on the top of the tackle box forum. Get your letters out!
Thanks G,,

Here is a summary on whats been posted over there.
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broken bobber
Member
Member # 4842

posted June 02, 2005 02:49 PM
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The Atlantic States Marine Fisheries Commission (ASMFC) and the New
Jersey Department of Environmental Protection's Division of Fish and
Wildlife will host a public meeting regarding proposed modifications to
the ASMFC's Summer Flounder Fishery Management Plan (FMP).

The meeting is scheduled for 6:30 p.m. on Wednesday, June 29, at the
Atlantic County Library, 306 Jimmie Leeds Road in Absecon, Galloway
Township. Similar meetings are scheduled for Connecticut, Delaware,
Maryland, Massachusetts, New York, North Carolina, Rhode Island and
Virginia.

The modifications propose a program that allows the ASMFC to subdivide
the recreational coastwide allocation into regions as an option under
conservation equivalency. It also initiates a public dialog to discuss
the ability to average multiple years of data as well as multiple years
of landings to establish recreational management programs.

A complete copy of the proposals can be obtained via the ASMFC's Web
site at www.asmfc.org under Breaking News or by calling (202) 289-6400.
Written comments will be accepted until July 20, 2005 and should be
addressed to Toni Kerns, FMP Coordinator, 1444 Eye Street, NW, Sixth
Floor, Washington, DC 20005; (202) 289-6051 (fax); or [email protected]
(e-mail).

To read the web version of this information, click on the following:
http://www.njfishandwildlife.com/news/2005/summerflndrmtg05.htm
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Posts: 421 | From: nj | Registered: Nov 2003 | IP: Logged |

CaptTB
Member
Member # 1914

posted June 04, 2005 07:54 AM
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Gentlemen (and ladies) This is extremely important.

If certain options in this addendum are chosen we are screw*d. It is unlikely that there are any regions we could be put in that would give us anything but MORE restrictive regulations than we already have.

The voluntary and averaging issues are a joke, they have already made it clear they are unwilling to do them, not to mention the manner in which they have been included into the document relegates them to one small possible option, and one very limited one at that.

Lastly, they are having one meeting, in south Jersey only, for what is one of the most important fisheries in our state. While this site may be devoted to stripers, Fluke fishing likely rivals or exceeds striper fishing in economic importance in this state. NJ has been the largest harvester of fluke as long as the stats have been recorded, and there will be one meeting, and it starts at a time when 90% of the 1/2 day fluke boats are just getting back to the dock.

Exactly how are the captains (and customers) from say Manasquan, Belmar, Highlands supposed to get off a 2-6:30 1/2 day fluke trip and make a meeting that's off of exit 41 on the PKWY?

This is bad news in all the ways you can say it.

Lastly, were this to happen we'd be right back where we were in the 90's. Regardless of what we do, if another state catches too many fluke, we will all have to cut back. Right now we are responsible for our own fishery. We screw up, we pay the price. If this goes through, MD and VA screw up, we pay the price. DE or NY screws up, we pay the price.

Enough said.

--------------------
CaptTB
United Boatmen NJ/NY

www.bigjamaica.com

www.canyontuna.com

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Posts: 593 | From: Brielle,NJ,USA | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged |

CaptG
Moderator
Member # 242

posted June 04, 2005 09:45 AM
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What was the bright idea of the ASMFC in even coming up w/ this option? Will there be a chance for public comment before the meeting?
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Posts: 6156 | From: Mt. Laurel, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged |

TWIN D'S
Member
Member # 296

posted June 04, 2005 04:16 PM
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Put the meeting on my calendar cap. See you there.

--------------------
UMDB

I fish by myself because lots of people don't like me, and the ones that do like me, well, I don't want them to know my spots ;)

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Posts: 9670 | From: Back On The Bay | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged |

KRAYFISH
Member
Member # 908

posted June 04, 2005 06:34 PM
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Tony is right that the options open to New Jersey are not exactly in our favor. {I live in Pa. but fish in N.J.] How they resolve this is beyond me.Delaware has a 4 bag limit @17.5 inches, whereas New Jersey has 8 @ 16.5 inches. Delaware has a longer season, but their quota is much less than New Jersey. as I understand it the quotas of the regional states will be lumped together and they will need to come up with common bag limit, commonsize limits and common seasons. Each state will have to get this approved by their Fishery Dept.

I am not sure I am going to live long enough to see this happen.

My memory may be slipping, but I think another aspect of this is the multiyear averaging of MRFS data for the making of management decisions.

If nothing else, it will be interesting. Come out to the meeting and let the ASMFC folks know how you feel. That is the purpose of these meetings. They want to have public comment.....Gene

--------------------
Dr.Gene Kray,West Chester,Pa.and Bree Zee Lee,Cape May N.J......one of the founders of......"THE ANCIENT MARINERS"...RFA,PENNSYLVANIA CHAPTER SECRETARY AND CHAIRMAN EMERITUS...CAPE MAY CHARTER AND PARTY BOAT CAPTAINS ASSOCIATE...MEMBER INTERNATIONAL GAME FISH ASSOCIATION; PENNSYLVANIA REPRESENTATIVE TO THE MID-ATLANTIC FISHERY MANAGEMENT COUNCIL [MAFMC].ONGOING PROXY TO THE ATLANTIC STATES MARINE FISHERIES COMMISSION [ASMFC]

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Posts: 2438 | From: WEST CHESTER PA. | Registered: Jun 2001 | IP: Logged |

CaptTB
Member
Member # 1914

posted June 05, 2005 07:43 AM
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Unfortuantely there is not a single example of what the regulations would be under the various regional options. Yes, they tell you what the target vs. Landings would have been for last year, and what the reduction/increase would have been. However, with no frame of reference (what the regional regs would be to start with) those numbers are worthless.

You can look at this and say "oh hey, we would have either cut back a small amount or not at all!" But, that still does not tell you what you would be (or not be) cutting back from. With every state from DE north having a smaller bag limit and/or a larger size limit than NJ, it is not mathematically possible for us to have anything but more restrictive regulations to start, plus as I said then you will be held responsible for what happens in another state's fishery as well.

--------------------
CaptTB
United Boatmen NJ/NY

www.bigjamaica.com

www.canyontuna.com

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Posts: 593 | From: Brielle,NJ,USA | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged |

CaptG
Moderator
Member # 242

posted June 05, 2005 10:50 PM
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Thanks Capt TB, definitely a no win situation for NJ. 6:30 pm meeting is good for me, I will be there for sure!
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Posts: 6156 | From: Mt. Laurel, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged |

Captblock
Member
Member # 533

posted June 06, 2005 08:09 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by TWIN D'S:
Put the meeting on my calendar cap. See you there.
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Phil, maybe we can ride together. I will look at my schedule and get in touch with you. I can meet you at your house.

CaptTB, thanks for the info. I hope we have a good turn out but like you said, some captains will be working and others will not be able to make it. Many anglers and captains that fish the Delaware Bay should be at this meeting because we depend on the flounder fishery a great deal since the weakfish has declined.

Some people don't even know what a weakfish looks like, it has been so long since they caught one in the Delaware Bay. The fluke has really saved the summer season for many fishing businesses in NJ. If they take away our fluke we are screwed. It looks like the ASMFC is out to screw NJ. Why would any state vote for the proposed modifications if they are going to pay the price for another state catching too many fluke?

--------------------
Take a kid fishing.
Capt. Block

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Posts: 2136 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2001 | IP: Logged |

CaptTB
Member
Member # 1914

posted June 07, 2005 12:25 AM
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quote:
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Originally posted by Captblock:
Why would any state vote for the proposed modifications if they are going to pay the price for another state catching too many fluke?
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Simple. Because the states of , for example, NY and DE both have fluke quotas that combined equal barely half of NJ's Fluke quota. Both states have higher size limits and lower baglimits. By incorporating NJ's share of the fishery in with their own, we will see an increase in size, decrease in bag, shortened season (or any combination thereof) but they will actually see the opposite, ending with something likely in between what we have and what they have.

In the shortrun, they see gain, gain gain, at our expense. Of course, in the long run they will be faced with all the same problems we had in the past (no reason to expect fluke fishing to fundamentally change all of a sudden up and down the coast) but how often do we look down the road?

People rarely see what's beyond the end of their nose, and in the shortrun this will provide gain to the "have nots" at the expense of the "haves."

NJ has always been the largest harvester of Fluke, as long as the numbers have been collect (25+ years) Even though the percentage we got of the fluke quota was the smallest we could have mathematically gotten (no other year or combination of years gave us as small or a smaller percentage than the one we got) our quota is still the largest on the coast. Even the next 2 largest quotas (NY and VA @ roughly 17% each) combined does not equal our share of the fishery (39%)

As such, we are the "haves" and they are the "have nots." (by the way, I'm not knocking VA, they have also been opposed to this idea of mandatory regions)

This is a short term solution to a long term problem of the manner in which fluke are currently managed. It's a band-aid that will not stick for long, but at least it'll look good to the constituents when they come back and show them the "progress" they are making.

Don't fix the problem, just make it someone else's instead. That's the way things work.

[ 06-07-2005, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: CaptTB ]

--------------------
CaptTB
United Boatmen NJ/NY

www.bigjamaica.com

www.canyontuna.com

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Posts: 593 | From: Brielle,NJ,USA | Registered: Feb 2002 | IP: Logged |

CaptG
Moderator
Member # 242

posted June 07, 2005 11:01 AM
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Yeah CaptTB, another great example of Fisheries Management at it's finest

Here's the info on where to send public comment, lets get our letters out!

Written comments will be accepted until July 20, 2005 and should be
addressed to Toni Kerns, FMP Coordinator, 1444 Eye Street, NW, Sixth
Floor, Washington, DC 20005; (202) 289-6051 (fax); or [email protected]
(e-mail).

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Posts: 6156 | From: Mt. Laurel, NJ USA | Registered: Nov 2000 | IP: Logged |

fran
Member
Member # 1135

posted June 07, 2005 11:13 AM
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I'll be there. My letter will be out tonight. Thanx Capt. G

--------------------
Fran
A proud member of Ancient Mariners
Character is higher then intellect
bree zee lee 2005

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Posts: 1175 | From: Drexel Hill, Pa./ Wildwood Crest, NJ | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged |

[ 06-07-2005, 01:12 PM: Message edited by: NIGHTSTRIKES ]
 

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Yet another example of the other States in the ASMFC ganging up for a fish grab against NJ. The already did it to the NJ commercial Fluke fisherman. Expect the same for us.
 

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So....it comes down to shifting to birdwatching or becoming politically active on a Grand Scale.
Tough choice....
The NRA has had good leads in the past as to elections (in there/our favor)....Fishing leads compaired .........really grey area from what I've seen.......
 
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