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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It seems we think of different fly types and are not aware of the correct nomenclature to support our favorite patterns: Check this out and PLEASE ADD as I am sure I will forget plenty!

A Surface fly: As the name describes, breaks the surface,or floats very near the surface of the water and sometimes pops through. Some type of floating material is usually used, as is a hook light enough to help its action. Soem type of foam or spun deer hair head adds bouyancy.
Examples: Poppers, Crease flys, surface sliders, clousers floating minnow, gurglers.

A Streamer fly: Follows the fly line to it's retreive depth. It has no sinking or floating charecteristics of it's own, to speak of. This fly gets all of it's action from the retreive you impart with your stripping speed and pause. Weighting a fly with lead wire wraps to keep it's action correct does not make it a non streamer. Wire wraps are sometimes needed to offset bouyant materials, or simply to keel a fly correctly in the water.

Examples: Deceiver, Surf Candys, HiTie Peanut Bunkers, Sar Mul Mac(heavy bucktail dressing and a wire wrapped shank).

Weighted flys have an added weighted head or eyes very near the front of the fly.
This weight gives the fly a darting motion during pauses in the retreive. These are usefull when fishing heavy current or when making a presentation to a deep holding fish. They are not as easy to cat as the non weighted flys, wich is why I tie these mostly small and sparse.

Examples: Joggy Fleye, CDM, Half & Half and others.

I hope this helps some new tyers separate form from function. An example of this confusion would be a tyer who uses a bead head before spun deer hair. Why add weight to a floating material? Doe's it searv a purpose in the design?

.....and more importatntly WHY did the tyer make it this way? If you are somwhat aware of the reasons, the answers will be more clear.

If not, BE SURE TO ASK !
Share your thoughts?
 

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Frank My first thoughts are, you covered it completely. However I am not familiar with-clousers floating minnow-although it sounds good. Also CDM.?? I should probably be reading some current books. Thanks for a good post. Ron
 

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Function first then form. The creators of the those pattern met the challenge of a certain set of conditions. Usually one of the ?popular? patterns will do it, they've been well thought out. The Fly Show is coming up and its interesting to talk with the tyers about their reasons for creating/tying a certain fly and how they fish it. Lots of tying tips you can apply to the patterns you tie. For beginers, K.I.S.S. A Clouser Minnow can imitate a fish, crab and shrimp when presented in different ways and tied in different sizes and colors. It?s the ?if I could only have one? fly. As a beginner I would tie up a whole box of just them. Then go to deceivers, candies and a few poppers. But eventually you will need some patterns with added weight or more buoyancy, volume, size to compensate for the effects of current and depth on your line and leader. I try to imagine where the fish are holding and ask - can I properly present this pattern in front of the fish? We?ve all fished a spot and said to ourselves ?if only I had one of those?. Something that went deeper , shallower or made more noise, lighter, darker, shinier etc. So you go home and tie that special fly for just that situation. Then you come back the next day and see if your plan worked. For me it's usually a slightly modified standard pattern with maybe a new thought about line selection or leader length. It?s a discipline to keep function before form. I have big bags of those special ?form? creations. Some are pretty, some are real ugly. Someday I?ll shave all those hooks and recycle them. I tied them before I knew what really works ;( It?s this special 1¼ oz Deep Banger Minnow!

Dave
 

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Dave,
You gotta talk to Ray about copyright infringement with that 1 1/4oz Deep Banger Minnow! I think he already covered that angle with his tried and true steriod jiggies
:D .

Fly Types:
If we all want to get TRUELY technical, we have to go back to the original nomenclature for fly types. I'm talking about the freshwater terms, dry flies and wet flies. Saltwater flyfishing is thought to have started when old time salmon anglers started catching striped bass (a junk fish) with their salmon flies. So in reality, saltwater fly fishing is only an extension of freshwater fly fishing, with heavier gear. In that sense, we need to look back to the freshwater terms for our flies.

The term "dry flies" covers all flies that float on or near the water's surface because of their inherent design. Dries include: flies imitating adult stages of aquatic insects (may, caddis, and stoneflies), terrestrial insects, poppers, sliders, and the like.

The term "wet flies" includes all other flies, such as flies imitating nymphs, pupae, other aquatic insects, dead terrestrial insects, shrimp (scuds), minnows, crayfish, salmon eggs, and other subsurface meals.

Poppers and sliders are pretty much the only dry flies used in saltwater. Everything else is wet fly fishing. Saltwater wet flies include streamers, jigs, invertebrate imitators (shrimp, crabs, sand fleas...), and other subsurface flies.

Is that technical enough??? :D
 

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Me illeterate - had to use online dictionery.

Main Entry: no·men·cla·ture
Pronunciation: 'nO-m&n-"klA-ch&r also nO-'men-kl&-"chur, -'me[ng]-, -ch&r, -"tyur, -"tur
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin nomenclatura assigning of names, from nomen + calatus, past participle of calare
Date: 1610
1 : NAME, DESIGNATION
2 : the act or process or an instance of naming
3 a : a system or set of terms or symbols especially in a particular science, discipline, or art b : an international system of standardized New Latin names used in biology for kinds and groups of kinds of animals and plants
- no·men·cla·tur·al /"nO-m&n-'klAch-r&l, -'klA-ch&-/ adjective
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Originally posted by Rowdy125:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> nomenclature
:confused:

neat word..

Heh.

Rory
</font>[/QUOTE]every now and then I come up with a good one, huh?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
However I am not familiar with-clousers floating minnow-although it sounds good. Also CDM.?? Ron [/QB]
Ron,
C louser
D eep
M innow...and there you have it


CFM looks like dees...

That rusty hook is only because I never, ever use this fly ;) . It's a very good waking fly...not nearly as subtle as a deer hair slider bug moving across the surface..but not a splashy fly either.

[ 01-02-2004, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: Frank Mihalic ]
 

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dees what?

Pictures of them are rare.
Saw one live once, I think Bob was tying it at the show a few years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Originally posted by Fly Ty R:
Dave,
You gotta talk to Ray about copyright infringement with that 1 1/4oz Deep Banger Minnow! I think he already covered that angle with his tried and true steriod jiggies
:D .

Fly Types:
If we all want to get TRUELY technical, we have to go back to the original nomenclature for fly types. I'm talking about the freshwater terms, dry flies and wet flies. Saltwater flyfishing is thought to have started when old time salmon anglers started catching striped bass (a junk fish) with their salmon flies. So in reality, saltwater fly fishing is only an extension of freshwater fly fishing, with heavier gear. In that sense, we need to look back to the freshwater terms for our flies.

:D
;)
Dave, Sorry but I don't speak freshwater! ;)

Just kidding,,,Good point though, and I really never thought about it because as I kiddingly said, I really don't play freshwater :D !
 

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To All,

Interesting posts above. I don't want to get to far off the original topic, but Frank's post about streamer retrieve methods and Fly Ty R's post about the roots of salt H20 FF caught my attention. IMO alot can be learned from the fundamentals used in salmon and river fishing and those techniques work well in the salt. It's real east to get caught up in all the latest and greatest hype with fast rods, shooting heads, hand over hand retrieve and sinking lines. A floating line and good line mending skills are valuable assets for presenting all types of fly's shallow or deep. Where category do epoxy's and corshair and siliskin fly's fall into?

Regards,
Flatwing
 

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Don't forget the cross over patterns, flies like Crease Flies, Sliders or Siliclones(I tie them as dry flies). These work well both surface and subsurface.
 

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Never tried the floating minnow. I've seen it plenty of times, though.

Frank,
I wouldn't expect you to know all the nitty-gritty of freshwater fly fishing. I mean, I really wouldn't expect ANYONE to know it. That's why I'm here, to provide an encyclopedia of useless, yet pertinent, information :D .

"Nomenclature": I had flash backs of taking the SAT's. NOOOOOOO!!!!!! ( And no, I'm not talking about flash back nymphs
)

Rory,
I see your friend got another searun in the Squan not too long ago. Hasn't that same fish dried out by now??

Flatwing:
I couldn't agree more. When I started in saltwater, especially the back bays, I noticed tons of similarities to freshwater stream fishing. Having done 8 years of small stream and pond trout and bass fishing before even picking up a saltwater fly rod, it was pretty obvious the similarities. By the way, not to open a can of worms (even though this is a fly forum
), some would say that epoxies, corsairs, and sili-skin flies aren't even flies at all, just lures that can be cast with a fly rod. I don't think that way, but some do.

Philly,
I don't know. Clones and creases might be in their own class. What about deer hair divers, like the Dahlberg Diver? They float at rest and dive upon retrieve. I think they are classed as dry flies, but I'm not sure. I think that any fly that floats because of it's inherent design (not just because it's bone dry upon first impact with the water) is considered a "dry fly", regardless if it goes under the water at times. Sometimes when I'm fishing, say, a Letort Hopper dry in pocket water, I'll dead drift it under the water when it becomes waterlogged so it resembles a drowning grasshopper, but that doesn't make the pattern a wet fly.

So who's ready for Somerset????
:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Good topic to keep going...
Mending....I can't seem to learn this from a book. I need to fish with someone who can share this with me. I know what it is, but just am not sure where it applies in SWFF. Lil help?
 

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Frank You have a spot on my boat anytime. Mending is not for fresh water only. Ron
 

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Originally posted by Frank Mihalic:
Good topic to keep going...
Mending....I can't seem to learn this from a book. I need to fish with someone who can share this with me. I know what it is, but just am not sure where it applies in SWFF. Lil help?
Its used a lot when dealing with waves and currents and IS NOT easy....although I never had anyone actually show me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Originally posted by sparse grey:
Frank You have a spot on my boat anytime. Mending is not for fresh water only. Ron
Thank You, my freind!
How do you like the CFM?
 

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Frank As always, your flies look good. Can think of a few times when I would have used something like that, but not many. as always, thanks for sharing. Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Flys are funny like that....If I had one for everything, I would carry so many fly boxes!
Really though, I like this fly when the water is windblown a bit, and you want to leave a wake.
A surface slider is too sedate for that type of water, but I preferr it in glassy calm..

This year I plan to experiment with different size heads vs different sized hooks....we will see.
 
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