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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some days you get the tog and some days the tog gets you! Sat jumped on the Starfish for a day of toggin with my buddy Paul. Last time out on the SF was about a month ago and I had one of my best days of toggin as I had 10 or so keeps and at least as many TBs.

This past Saturday I was sitting outside the cabin door and was next to 4 sharpies from NY. One was a skipper of a PB out of NY (i think he said it was the bullet?) and I think the guy next to me may have been his 1st mate. Well these guys were un-frigin believable! They easily had 3X thier limit as they brought up tog after tog while the rest of us sat there and watched. The guy right next to me would bait up cast out and within a minute be swinging a fatty over the rail. This went on all day to the point I think I lost my mind....watching him bail tog while I waited and waited for a hint of a bite.

Obviouly I studied their every move to see what the heck was the trick. They all used a funky double rig that I had never seen before. It positioned the crab on both sides of the sinker. They also had their own special bait - FRESH while leggers. The one older guy used a side winder reel and caught some monsters but all of them were catching all day long.

My buddy and I had 2 each and maybe a shortie or two. To make matters worse, my buddy had the pool winer until "guess who" fished thru his over-flowing cooler of tog and brought out a bigun that just beat out Paul for the money.

I have never been as humbled by the tog as I was this past Saturday and I never saw 4 guys make 25 other fishermen look as pathetic as the sharpies from NY did on Sat.

I'm done with the tog! I hate the tog.

Non - Tog Father:mad:
 

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Experienced similar on a few tog trips. Not the expert, but I was told that if someone beside you is fishing whiteleggers and you aren't, they will catch and you won't.

I had the experience the other week on the Porgy IV. 2 guys had their limit out of 26, and 8-10 fares didn't even catch a throwback! Both were aside of me. I had 2 throwbacks, two 15" keepers and did not get a bite for an hour at a time while these guys bailed tog.

The 2 that had their limit had whiteleggers. The rest of us had stone crabs and greenies.

Halfway thru the trip the one fellow asked what I had in my cooler. I answered, "Just a block of ice, no fish."

He said, "See this pretty little whitelegger? That's tog caviar! Put this on your hook and get ready for a keeper."

I did, and I did, even though it was only 15-1/2". It hit within 10 seconds of getting on the bottom.

I've fished with you previously, and watched as you did quite well when I was on the trip. Can't make them jump on!

We fished out of AC Saturday and the guy beside me used the rig similar to what you said, used a 2-3" whole whitelegger on each hook, and he was high hook on our 6 man charter. He was really good.

He picked a 13 pounder that we took a picture of and threw back. We agreed at the dock that any fish over 9 pounds gets photographed and released. Was a good day. We limited out an hour before the end of the trip and the last hour at the last stop--the gold mine, of course--we caught at least another 6 man limit, throwing the 13 pounder, a 10 pounder, and many 5-7 pounders back as we bleed ours and had our limit. Best tog trip I had in quite a while.

I am going to find the stiff leader that these guys use to tie these funky rigs that look like a bell.

Good luck.
 

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The rig is a 2 hook rig and the leader used to tie it is very stiff. It looks like a section through the center of an umbrella--actually like an umbrella blown inside out and then turned upside down.. The rig has ~ 5-6" loop with a hook on each side and the center umbrella stick gets a small loop to fasten to the leader dropper loop. I think some call it a Snafu rig.

The leader is so stiff that the hooks bow outward from each side.
 

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So close

Tog Father you where one street away from us.
we are on the other side of the creek down the end.
Any way they where most likely using a snafu rig.
I hand tie them here for the shop there two different type,s we have.
if you like stop by and i can show you how to tie them.
we also carry whiteleggers and should have a good supply for the next mouth or so.
 

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TF,First let me say we have all been humbled at one time or other. But I have a question on there rig. I understand what you were discribing but were the hooks tied or crimped in place? And by the way I was humbled by the tog 2 weeks ago on peb3's boat. It was the fish not the anglers. There was 5 of us and only put 8 in the box with me contributing 0.
 

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happened to me last Saturday on the porgy also. Thats togging some day your are the happiest guy and others you want to throw your rod over. I just have come to the understanding that that's toggin. this is from Monty from the Mornigstars last report, i think it speaks volumes and anyone who togs can really appreciate this great write up.

from Monty ENJOY the Mulen part below refers to Dennis(tunarun)

Toggin is THE TOUGHEST bottom fishing.
You can stand adjacent to someone who's catching and not get a sniff. I've seen 3 guys rod-tip to rod-tip & only the center guy catching. I've seen experts catch when none others could & beginners trounce the skilled.
Being "On the piece" -on structure- is key. That's why I fish a light rail, so people can move around. This helps a lot but you can still get your head handed to you.
If you are taking a fish off, especially after calling "Net!" and hear Splash-Sploosh then you have likely been "underhand mugged." No one's in your spot at the rail but there are suddenly sinkers landing in the water at your feet -- Fair Game.
Overhand casting has never been allowed since I had a little girl get hooked in the head many years ago - underhand only.
Among friends I have seen over-the-shoulder mugging. Where, seriously, a guy catches a tog and his "buddy" lays his rod on his shoulder to drop right in his spot..
I have heard of instances where over-the-shoulder muggings have occurred among strangers - not on my boat -- Ever.
One man to a spot..

I've yet to see "A Natural" at toggin. You have to build skill. However, It doesn't hurt to get lucky now & again.
Here are some of the diverse techniques I've seen used.

Learning to "Larry" a fish takes decades. This is when you can consistently hook tog under the chin, apparently just before they bite.

Much more difficult is the Frank where you hook a tog under the chin and in the tail. This makes the fish appear as though it's 10 pounds heavier and is VERY impressive with fish over 15 pounds.

Only the best toggers, however, will "Sam Away" undesirable fish. Here what to you & I would be an exciting bite is perceived as a nuisance. With a fish up to 12 pounds nipping/tasting your bait, shake the crab purposely to spook it while muttering, "Go away. Send me your Mama." (advise this only after many, many 12 pound fish and are only looking for 20+)

A sure-fire way to raise eyebrows if there are skilled toggers about is to let "Rodney" set the hook: A "Ruvi" they call it. All an angler need do is bait, drop & engage the reel while setting the rod in the "Rod" holder. Especially effective is walking inside to get warm while Rodney hooks the pool winning fish.

I couldn't recommend doing "The Colonel" in this day & age. It involves being extremely inebriated and reeling in very, very slowly: So slowly that no one realizes you have a fish on. Then, just before the day's over shout, "Hey Meathead, bring this fish in for me." Anything over 15 pounds will do sp long as it sweeps the pool; but, again, its very difficult in the modern day to evade detection with spectra line and a composite rod.

Each & every angler is fully capable of describing a catch; Examining each and every lost fish, however, is a top-togger's skill.
Sometimes you'll see such an angler "Mulen-It-Over." Here the fisher may be quite sure he's just lost one of the biggest tog in all history. He ponders the precise position of the hook as it slipped out, the piece of coral the line cut-off on, or the frayed section of top-shot that was not replaced in time.
This dissection, this seeking to understand failure, this introspection centered on every possible manner of human & mechanical fallibility stems from seeking angling perfection and can, in fact, lead to being in the 20 pound tog club.
Seekers of Oneness With Chiseltooth should begin their oratory with a 3 to 5 minute description of "The Bite"
..then allow just a moment for "The Take" followed immediately by how the behemoth was hooked. Possibly running hours; It's really best to begin with an estimation of where and how deeply the hook went after eating what part of the crab first.
Though rare, I have seen persons as young as 6 quite accomplished at such after-action reporting.

If you have to bring more than 3 back-up reels because yours are always blowing-up on fish, you might hear murmurings of 'Russian.' Catching this many fish is certainly not a bad thing if you can afford the reels or know the warranty people at Avet by name.

If, however, you blow a reel up while stuck in the bottom; Or, far worse, declare, "Its a big one" while firmly snagged & deeply bowed-up on the wreck and hollering "Net! Net!" you'll be permanently type-cast under "Rookie."

We should also now look into "The Splash" but that rod category is far too large for this email. Universal among anglers, an old tugboat skipper told me, "If you ain't been aground, you ain't been nowhere." And, as in tugging, loosing a rod overboard can be painfully expensive.

Broken rod experiences too are a mutually shared experience. Of particular note to Morning Star clients is a rod snapped while swinging 10+ pound tog over the rail: That particular maneuver is called, "The Captain" and anglers will be well advised to sing its praises if they witness such clever angling prowess. Expressions of deepest anguish, such as were recently seen in North Korea, can also be appropriate. Unappreciative of the moment; less experienced tog fishers might guffaw in humor--They'll likely find their next drop resembles a wreck made of trawl nets and used razor wire...
 

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Had the same experience fishing 2 spots down from the same group on 12/30. Excellent toggers for sure!!! How many of their 3X the limit went back in the ocean???
 

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Tog humble all of us every so often. Practice makes (closer) to perfect and unfortunatly, yes sometimes the type of crab you fish (or the guy next to you fishes) will make a difference in your day. But no matter how much money you spend on that perfect toggin rod and 6 dozen white crabs,u cant buy skills & experience !!! :razz:
 

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Fished on the Porgy two Thursdays ago with some very experienced tog fishermen. Picked up whiteleggers at Two chums and the boat provided greenies. It was a very slow pick, but I managed a limit to 8.5# and my two buddies had 3 keepers between them. I caught all my fish on greenies. The next day we went on my friends boat out of Little Egg Inlet on a beautiful day and I got only two keepers-we were sitting on major wreckage-but they weren't biting. Four of us ended with a dozen keepers and lots of TB's. That's Toggin'!
 

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Some days you get the tog and some days the tog gets you! Sat jumped on the Starfish for a day of toggin with my buddy Paul. Last time out on the SF was about a month ago and I had one of my best days of toggin as I had 10 or so keeps and at least as many TBs.

This past Saturday I was sitting outside the cabin door and was next to 4 sharpies from NY. One was a skipper of a PB out of NY (i think he said it was the bullet?) and I think the guy next to me may have been his 1st mate. Well these guys were un-frigin believable! They easily had 3X thier limit as they brought up tog after tog while the rest of us sat there and watched. The guy right next to me would bait up cast out and within a minute be swinging a fatty over the rail. This went on all day to the point I think I lost my mind....watching him bail tog while I waited and waited for a hint of a bite.

Obviouly I studied their every move to see what the heck was the trick. They all used a funky double rig that I had never seen before. It positioned the crab on both sides of the sinker. They also had their own special bait - FRESH while leggers. The one older guy used a side winder reel and caught some monsters but all of them were catching all day long.

My buddy and I had 2 each and maybe a shortie or two. To make matters worse, my buddy had the pool winer until "guess who" fished thru his over-flowing cooler of tog and brought out a bigun that just beat out Paul for the money.

I have never been as humbled by the tog as I was this past Saturday and I never saw 4 guys make 25 other fishermen look as pathetic as the sharpies from NY did on Sat.

I'm done with the tog! I hate the tog.

Non - Tog Father:mad:

tog father i am going to throw on a few pics here for you of maybe the 2 rigs the guys may have been using....i know those guys well they fish we me too...they are funny guys the hop around all the time you will see them fishing everywhere...they work on the "bullet" or "pilot" up in sheepshead bay...over all really nice guys...they are a step above the rest a lot of north jersey "exit 74 and above" guys from new york are tog machines...the find life and drag fish out of spots when no one else is getting a scratch...painful to watch sometimes...can almost seem like the are cheatin or doing something unfair...i have watched people leave their spot and 1 of those guys drop in right after hey leave and hook up big time...like i said almost unbelievable....i think if we are talking bout same guys which i am reasonably sure we are they came with me on sunday....1 advantage you may have overlooked is...right now our sj local whiteleggers are bigger and harder crabs there is run of smaller and softshell whites around i just picked up 6 bushels in belmar the other day and i am really happy...when the white bite is on these are a preferred bait amongst the other whites....the bite has been good this year...but at times can be a little peculiar and subtle differences like that can make a big difference...in my tackle shop i sell both kinds of these hooks in a 3 rig pack hand tied by myself...the first pick is of the "snafu" rig and the second is of the "belmar" or "spreader" type...the belmar is a favorite of tony monica guy who caught world record with us....i prefer the snafu or just using 1 plain hook but everybody has their own thing...if you like the looks of either i do have packaged and could ship some or you can swing by and grab some from my shop...also i could tell you how they are tied if you want...if you cant tell by just looking at them...god luck man dont let those tog get you down....i tell people all the time i feel like sometimes togging is more like hunting...

thanks tim

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I grew up in the NYC area and spent my teenage years fishing the rock piles in the Western LI Sound for blackfish/tog
It used to be 20 lb mono with a weight on the bottom, tie a blackfish hook with a 12 inch leader a few inches above the weight, hook on a fiddler crab and go.
When did tog fishing get so complicated :huh: ??
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Tim - not the rigs in your pictures. Sounds more like the rig that Dick mentions in his tread. They definately tied them themselves as the one guy mentioned that he had tied up a bunch the night before. I should have asked to buy one at the end of the trip.

they sure were PROS. From listening to the guys it did indeed sound like they were down in South Jersey for several days and were no doubt on a several day mission to kill some tog. They had several large bags of crab which seemed to indicate that they were gona fish Sunday and probably monday as well. Seemed like nice guys but GDam did they piss me off.

Frigin Giants fan no doubt:D

TF
 

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tog father i am going to throw on a few pics here for you of maybe the 2 rigs the guys may have been using....i know those guys well they fish we me too...they are funny guys the hop around all the time you will see them fishing everywhere...they work on the "bullet" or "pilot" up in sheepshead bay...over all really nice guys...they are a step above the rest a lot of north jersey "exit 74 and above" guys from new york are tog machines...the find life and drag fish out of spots when no one else is getting a scratch...painful to watch sometimes...can almost seem like the are cheatin or doing something unfair...i have watched people leave their spot and 1 of those guys drop in right after hey leave and hook up big time...like i said almost unbelievable....i think if we are talking bout same guys which i am reasonably sure we are they came with me on sunday....1 advantage you may have overlooked is...right now our sj local whiteleggers are bigger and harder crabs there is run of smaller and softshell whites around i just picked up 6 bushels in belmar the other day and i am really happy...when the white bite is on these are a preferred bait amongst the other whites....the bite has been good this year...but at times can be a little peculiar and subtle differences like that can make a big difference...in my tackle shop i sell both kinds of these hooks in a 3 rig pack hand tied by myself...the first pick is of the "snafu" rig and the second is of the "belmar" or "spreader" type...the belmar is a favorite of tony monica guy who caught world record with us....i prefer the snafu or just using 1 plain hook but everybody has their own thing...if you like the looks of either i do have packaged and could ship some or you can swing by and grab some from my shop...also i could tell you how they are tied if you want...if you cant tell by just looking at them...god luck man dont let those tog get you down....i tell people all the time i feel like sometimes togging is more like hunting...

thanks tim

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Recently someone posted about rod action being responsible for lost fish. Wondering if you noticed their rods and I assume they used braid. I remember being schooled by some NY guys on the Atlantic Star, doesn't seem like the guys these guys were pushy and unfriendly. But you couldn't take it away from them they were very good.
 

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Tim - not the rigs in your pictures. Sounds more like the rig that Dick mentions in his thread.
TF
Tog Father:

If you tie the Snafu rig that Tim shows in pix #1 with a heavy stiff leader and you hold it by the small loop that you would fasten to the dropper loop on your line, you will get the curved inverted umbrella effect I mentioned. The rig I was talking about is the Snafu, the one with equal lengths to the hooks. The Belmar, Pix #2, is similar but has unequal lengths to the hooks.

I tie the Snafu and use it, but with simply 40# mono leader, mine simply hangs limp, basically both hooks touching each other (Sounds like a Cialis commercial coming on :D )

I still need to find out what the heavy stiff leader is that they use. I tie my rigs with Octopus 4/0 and 5/0 rigs. The guy on the boat that caught the 13# on Saturday on the trip I was on used at least a 6/0 to 7/0 Octopus.
 

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dick there prob using 60lb straight leader.. comes in 4ft sections uaully.. only problem is it can break at any time.. yeah mono can break but this stuff breaks a lot.. from what i was told its not made like mono.. maybe fred from no bones will chime in
 

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I have 40 pound straight leader that comes in 4 ft lengths. I use this for seabass rigs and I also cut it in half abd tie Snafu rigs for tog. It doesn't bow out as far as the 60# would.

Most of my recent Snafu rigs were tied with 40# Flourocarbon, since that's aall I have up home here in PA.

Works good too, as flouro is abrasion resistant. Let's put it this way---I caught 20 some tog last Saturday to 6-7#, and at least 10, maybe more, were keeper size. We threw a pile of them back, probably 30+ keepers went back because we were limited out before the last gold mine stop.
 
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