BASS BARN banner
1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
678 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just got done tying two nail knots to attach dacron backing to fly lines and I really despise tying this knot. I used a coffee stirrer for a straw and it took me about three attempts to get it right on each one. I'm really not knot-challenged-can do a bimini, palomar, clinch, surgeons loop etc. , all with my eyes closed, but the nail knot really just pisses me off. Anyone have a better solution for fly line to backing- a loop to loop system maybe? How would you put a good loop into the dacron? There has to be a better way!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,198 Posts
Loop to loop, bimini in dacron (large loop so it will go over reel when changing lines.) Loop in fly line, whichever loop knot is best for you. If any consolation I try to avoid nail knots myself. People who tie them have no problem, but tieing one every 5 years doesn't do it for me. Good luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,132 Posts
I have one of those brass tools. It works. Of course the guy selling them at the show made it look much easier, like watching someone make balloon animals. If I ever lose those directions though....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,585 Posts
I only use nail knots in a pinch for my freshwater gear, either putting on the fly line to the backing or the leader to the fly line. And I use the nail-less nail knot with the fly line backed over itself, not the traditional nail knot with no "backing loop" in the fly line. The nail-less is much easier to tie, IMO, and stronger. You don't need any tools other than your fingers, which is great when you're out on the water.

But they are not strong enough for saltwater. I've had them pull out on fish with my saltwater stuff, so I don't use them anymore.

Do what Sparse said. Tie a large single or double Bimini (which are both fairly easy knots to tie; I don't understand the mystique surrounding that knot??? :confused: ) in the backing, making a 12" or so loop, and put a loop in the fly line. You can use a whipped loop in the fly line itself, or use a piece of backing Albright looped to the end, or splice a loop into the fly line. An Albright loop is easy to make, just an Albright knot made with the backing doubled over to begin with so it makes a loop. Just make sure it's a strong connection. You definately DO NOT want your line failing there. I've never had a problem with either. The only problem with Albrights is they can get bulky.

Loop-to-loops are the easiest thing to use, fresh or saltwater.

[ 03-15-2005, 08:02 AM: Message edited by: Fly Ty R ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
678 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
thanks for the replies- I am definitely going to the loop to loop system. I have done loops in the fly line before on the front end with a bobbin and rod- wrapping thread- it's easy. Think I'll convert all my setups to this system. I just wasn't sure if the loop system would go through the guides easily enough if a fish was burning line- thought maybe there'd be a nasty hang up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,585 Posts
Didn't have a problem with it on albies at Harkers this year. Loop went right through the guides at lightspeed, no hang ups or anything. Make sure if you're wrapping with thread to smooth out where you double the fly line over. I use a dab of UV Knot Sense to smooth it out even more.

[ 03-15-2005, 11:47 AM: Message edited by: Fly Ty R ]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
Dave,

A couple of reasons for a bimini. (I am sure there are many) Making a loop, or doubling your line, or both. Going from a light line to a bite tippet or such, it gives you two lines to tie with. Also having your line pass through all those wraps in the bimini it is more or less "gripped and cushioned" as it passes straight through them and you have less of a cutting situation. More like a chinese handcuff. In fact, sorta the same idea as a nail knot. Of course there are the other famous, fancy knots that can't be made without tying a bimini first, so that kinda keeps the bimini in business. I almost always use it on the backing loop. Leaders, I've never had the need for it. Wish I did:)

Dave
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
481 Posts
Is a 9wt line (Inter. & floating) too large to fold over on itself for a loop? It seems that it would be. I Tried adding a mono loop to the end but it doesn't seem to hold well. I have used a nail knot to attach a piece of 50# mono w/ a perfection loop in that until now, but that seems like too many knots to pass through the guides.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
185 Posts
I usually use a braided mono loop. Since there is no knot and nothing is doubled it seems to pass through the best. I no longer use the premade ones but make my own from 30 or 50lb braided. I've never had one fail. I've looped the flyline a few times and not had a problem either. I used a razor blade to taper the end of the line before whipping the loop. I think for basic inshore stuff this should be fine. I think it adds to the fun to feel the knots banging through the guides
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,203 Posts
I make a loops in the ends of all of my fly lines. I double over about 3" of fly line and tie 2 or 3 nail knots to form a smallish 3/4" loop in the end. I find by using 50lb PowerPro to tie the nail knots, they are strong and very thin.
I have a 2" peice from the tip of an old rod. (a builder freind gave me. Perfect tool for nail knots.

As far as the nail knot being too weak for saltwater use???? If I was rigging a flyline junction with a nail knot, I would opt for a double nail knot.
You actually strip the core from the end 8" or so from the fly line. Tie a Nail knot with the core around the backing. Tie an opposing nail knot with the backing around the fly line. As you snug the wraps perfectly, slid each nail knot toward each other untill seated. Tighten and trim all.
I have tested them and broken 30lb dacron backing and 30lb cores, but have not broken that union.
As I said, I use loops on each end....but there is always a better way, right?
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top