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Fred, I certainly sympathize with the problems they are currently experiencing up there but in South Jersey, we have had the same issues for much longer. Three years ago, they were backing ten wheelers onto Brigantine beach and dumping thousand of tons of sand into the surf. From LBI south, this has been the solution of choice and there has been a direct relationship to the surf fishing decline. But now that Sandy has moved this solution up north, it has reached critical levels. Why is that? Last season, I saw more complaints from surf anglers up north about the invasion of "non locals" coming there to fish. Fact is, if you want to catch fish off the beach, you need to go where the conditions are conducive to attract them. So while I care what is now happening, I have to wonder why it is now more important. I agree it needs to be addressed but it needs to be addressed for the entire state, not just certain areas.
 

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Michael you are absolutely right, they destroyed our beaches and now they are heading north
 

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As fishermen we get no love from our government.
Some of you have vented your frustrations with the Magnusson-Stevens act when it comes to our fisheries management.
Others are angry about NY getting some of NJs flounder quota.

All the govt seems to do is kick the fisherman around. NOAA, ASMFC, NMFS, ACOE... They have all made it harder to enjoy our sport.
....
Let's take jetty country out of the equation for a moment....If we were to just talk about fishermen getting kicked around and bullied by the gov't, how many other fishermen out there are sick of that.....sick enough that they are mad to do something about it?.....I know I am....and a few others of us are.....but many of the rest, accept this bullying....thinking there is nothing we can do.......we need to overcome that mentality....and realize that every one of us....can make a difference...if we get mad enough to stick together.....
Look at the SSFFF....many fishermen were resigned to the fact that the gov't position was insurmountable, and we had to be bullied on flounder figures every year......then the SSFFF was formed......and they got the gov't to allow more quota.....all because a small group of anglers cared....and (finally) got others to join in support.......:thumbsup:
 

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1. in South Jersey, we have had the same issues for much longer. Three years ago, they were backing ten wheelers onto Brigantine beach and dumping thousand of tons of sand into the surf.

2. From LBI south, this has been the solution of choice and there has been a direct relationship to the surf fishing decline.

3. But now that Sandy has moved this solution up north, it has reached critical levels. Why is that? Last season, I saw more complaints from surf anglers up north about the invasion of "non locals" coming there to fish.

4. Fact is, if you want to catch fish off the beach, you need to go where the conditions are conducive to attract them.

5. So while I care what is now happening, I have to wonder why it is now more important. I agree it needs to be addressed but it needs to be addressed for the entire state, not just certain areas.

Mike, you know I don't want to ague or criticize what you're saying here....as I know the things you have done back channel to fight for fishing access and other fishermen issues......:thumbsup: :wave:

You are absolutely right....all the guys I know who fish South Jersey, complain about how fishing has been ruined by the replenishment there......some....like you and Fred....can remember back decades when there were more choices of where to fish the beaches there...more structure......and it must be killing you....what they have done....effectively coming in....and screwed you guys without the lube....with not much done to protest it.......


I get that...unfortunately this is the world we now live in....Apathy reigns supreme among fishermen........too many are unwilling to act unless it is their own backyard..........
IMO
that is part of the problem here...but it is our problem as a group.....
Why do we let politicians and federal groups walk on us like that?
How come we don't have more backbone?
Why do we let bullies do this to us, simply because they decide it's ok....and "they" are stronger than "we"...because of the apathy?

At what point do we stand up, get mad about the bully kicking sand in our collective faces,:fighting: hold up our hands and say...
"No! You are not doing this any more for the benefit of a few rich people. We all have rights to the beach, and we all deserve a say in the matter!"
 

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I am sorry what they did in South Jersey....IMO they are guilty not only of trampling on your rights, but the rights of all of us.... they LIED when they said the replenishment would not affect marine life.....
Imagine that....Federal officials, lying, to get a project pushed forward........:thumbsdown:





Without criticizing you, Mike....(as I know you have always been a strong voice for the S Jersey guys)... I ask....

When they were doing this, where was the outrage?
Where were the concerned fishermen to protest?

I know you and Fred :thumbsup: would have been willing to protest to stop it....perhaps even lay down your bodies in front of the tractors....if you could have gotten 200 others to lay down in front of the tractors as well.......

But would they? If they could?
I would.....and if I knew about it then, I would have been right down there with you, Fred,,.,,,,and the other guys.....standing and shouting,...writing letters.....making phone calls.............

I agree with your comments......


**The Northern NJ fishermen are not immune from criticism....When this replenishment first started....we...like our South Jersey brothers, felt there was nothing we could do....we felt impotent...ineffective......many of us did nothing.......


 

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However, this is one area, where we could make a difference.....
The heightened elevation of the area in question, insures that sand pumping will not be effective at all, to protect from another storm.....
The jetties/groins in question, have remained untouched for around 70 years.......the rock walls and breakwater T jetties originally built there, have provided protection through 3/4 of a century's worth of storms....with little modification.........

I am fighting for these jetties because I fish them....yep I'm guilty of that.....
But I also fought for Drag Island, Brookhaven LI's Shoreham Beach, Fishing access at Hatteras......and other areas that I may never, or rarely get to fish....





Because I know that one loss to an area, no matter how far from me.....is a loss to us all.

** It's my hope, that if this is successful, it will set a precedent for ALL of NJ, so that we don't have to suffer through the ruining of our beloved fishing grounds, in the same way....in the future......As each year passes, more of the old timers leave us.....and the stories of how things used to be...tend to fade from the minds of many of the new anglers out there.....

Someday, when Fred, you, and I, are dead.....who will remain to put the spark of passion into the next generation? To instill in them that fighting for fishermens rights, whether you live there or not.....is something that should be part of every fisherman's choices....and that those of us who won't fight or protest,,,,,make it easy for Big Gov't to walk all over us......and disregard our God-given rights to fish....which are equally important to those of property owners.....
 

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Here is a compelling video on how replenishment kills all life in close... by Art Nelson....

 

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I know this was long-winded...but I can't help the passion I feel.
Mike, you know I will fight for your beaches, or any other beaches, as the need arises......you can always count on me.....doesn't matter to me whether I live there or not......

But we do need your help now....and that of all fishermen who don't know or care about this particular fight...because someday.....the fight in front of you...will be the one that you do care about....and you will be looking for support from others.......trying to raise awareness, just as I and others are now doing....








So.....will you help us, Mike and others? Can we count on you to send at least one e-mail, or make at least one phone call?
**Action plan - Call Congressman Pallone Mon-Tue March 24-25.
Congressman Pallone
(732) 571-1140

1. Tell him you are a fisherman and voter.
2. If you want to say you live in his district and feel he doesn't represent fishermen, that's an option as well.
3. Ask why he has not considered other options for beach replenishment.
4. Give your strong opinion that sand replenishment has not proven effective in NJ.
5. Ask him what concrete progress we the registered voters can expect of him as this goes forward.

Of course, you will not get to speak with him. But you can register your strong disapproval of his current stance and position.

**
We need to do this, not by the dozens of calls, but hundreds of calls, to make a difference.......

Thanks for reading, people! :wave:
 

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Dark skies, I appreciate what you are saying but the economics of the situation are going to make it an uphill fight all the way. This is about protecting billions of dollars of property and both you and I know which side the powers that be will take.Over the last decade, they have pumped millions upon millions of dollars towards these projects. Up until now, the northern portion of the state has been somewhat spared the pain. But I suspect the floodgates there have now been opened. IMO, putting a protest on the beach without attacking the science behind it is worthless. A protest will work for other fishing issues such as access but when the other side is using saving lives and million dollar homes, those protesters will be ignored. We live in a society now that loves to use scare tactics. So as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow, this will become about saving lives. Build a foundation with the science and then raise the roof with the protest. JMO.
 

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Michael you are absolutely right, they destroyed our beaches and now they are heading north
All of you new guys and members should make it your business to get to know Fred......he is one of the old salts....has seen many a change....many for the worse....just an hour or two, a chance to pick his brains, and hear him share his stories......would be an eye-opening experience that you could not get at any seminar or fishing show....or any magazine......
If I was a young angler today, who wanted to understand why we fight so hard, for some of the things we do, I would contact Fred, and ask him about what fishing a few decades ago, was like....:thumbsup: :wave:

MikeC too...he has seen and experienced a lot..:thumbsup: :wave:..some of the good fishing times these guys have lived through, may never be seen again.....
 

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We need to make a stand! Most of us on this site (including myself) are guilty of not doing enough to protect this sport. That is no longer the case for myself. I'm calling this Pallone guy, I'm going to the 4/03/14 fluke meeting, and I'm going to support all worthy causes. I've seen how little has been done to protect our fisheries by the powers that be. Surf fishing in SJ is in a sad state. Besides a couple of areas at very limited times the fishing is poor. Why?! Because all structure for feeding and habitat for baitfish/shellfish has been covered with sand. Good luck North Jersey. Your in for a real kick in the balls if this replenishment goes down.
 

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I remember when i was a kid.Everytime you went into the ocean to swim,ride waves,boogie board,etc., you had to keep your feet 'moving' so the crabs couldn't bite you and of course so many times your feet would land on crab or a shell. Just about always had at least a scratch on you feet from the critterss that seemd to be all over the surf bottom. That was in the 60's,70's.....In the 80's the crab bites and shell landings started to decrease. By the 90's it was rare for your feet touched nothing but sand. I'm amazed that we even have a chance of catching fish along the surf line today!
 

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All you need to do to prove it to yourself is think about the last time you saw a clam wash on the beach after a storm in South Jersy. Bet you a dime to a dollar that you haven't seen one in about the same time as all this "beach replenishment" started. You can cover a clam bed with sand and they will push back up to the level that is most comfortable for them. But if you keep doing it over and over again, the habitat will eventually die out. When you want to sink a piling in the back bay, it comes along with an environmental impact study. Sometimes two or three. But on the front beach, all you need to do is run out a vacuum cleaner. Without the science, you can fight all you want but the dollars will fight back.
 

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You can cover a clam bed with sand and they will push back up to the level that is most comfortable for them. But if you keep doing it over and over again, the habitat will eventually die out.
I moved back from California in the fall of 2003, just over 10 years ago, and since then, Corson's Inlet State Park has been dredged 3, 4, or 5 times -- it's been so many times that I can't remember. And there's another dredging project scheduled for this year.

I am opposed to this, naturally, but I can't fight it. We have no shot at reversing this.
 

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I don't mind the fight as long as there is a chance of a win. So if someone develops a strategy that includes more than standing around with signs or honking their horns and hoping the press will notice, I am all for it. Speaking of the media, the only place I heard anything about the OP's video was here. That's a wasted opportunity. If you are going to put two hundred people on the beach to protest something, at least 10% of them need to e members of the press. JMO. Mostly for the benefit of the politicians. In fact, pick a politician and put those 200 people in the front row of his next public appearance. And send him a message.
 

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may be nothing, but I reached out to an old contact in NOAA to see if there is existing research available on the effects of beach replenishment on coastal biosystem.

my daughter interned with him a number of years ago, so hoping to parlay that contact into some info that may be useful, if any exists.
 

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Tourists = $$$. The shore towns will always make efforts to keep them coming back. Most -by far- Tourists dont surf fish,but they of course love the beach,and I'm sure that Most of them would rather NOT see 'grungy' fishermen and smelling bait when they are laying about the sand. Also - a big 'selling/draw point' that a beach resort area advertise is a CLEAN BEACH,add the fact that when you are in the surf enjoying the waves and what not there are NO shells and crabs and what not attacking your feet. Beach replenishment does a few things that would draw tourists -- Bigger beach,cleaner beach(no clams being washed up from storms) and NO 'life' to worry about your feet getting bit or stepping on sharp shells. Beach Replenishment is a WIN-WIN for shore towns to keep tourists happy and coming back. Surf fishermen add very little $$ to these towns compared to Tourists. Another case about $$ winning over any arguments of sbustaining and protecting 'wild-life'(sea creatures that inhabit the shorelines). I think we fishermen have NO chance to turn this around!
Another issue is over-spraying the back bays with insecticides -to keep the tourists from getting bit). These poisons are also killing the food sources of game fish. Less food - less fish. No reason to cruise the back bays to feed.
 

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Tourists = $$$. The shore towns will always make efforts to keep them coming back. Most -by far- Tourists dont surf fish,but they of course love the beach,and I'm sure that Most of them would rather NOT see 'grungy' fishermen and smelling bait when they are laying about the sand. Also - a big 'selling/draw point' that a beach resort area advertise is a CLEAN BEACH,add the fact that when you are in the surf enjoying the waves and what not there are NO shells and crabs and what not attacking your feet. Beach replenishment does a few things that would draw tourists -- Bigger beach,cleaner beach(no clams being washed up from storms) and NO 'life' to worry about your feet getting bit or stepping on sharp shells. Beach Replenishment is a WIN-WIN for shore towns to keep tourists happy and coming back. Surf fishermen add very little $$ to these towns compared to Tourists. Another case about $$ winning over any arguments of sbustaining and protecting 'wild-life'(sea creatures that inhabit the shorelines). I think we fishermen have NO chance to turn this around!
Another issue is over-spraying the back bays with insecticides -to keep the tourists from getting bit). These poisons are also killing the food sources of game fish. Less food - less fish. No reason to cruise the back bays to feed.
Sad commentary but true none the less. In addition to spraying the back bays, I have been calling for a moratorium on lawn chemicals for years. The run off kills the eel grasses which in turn kills off the grass shrimp and on and on. Try walking on the beach in Longport or Margate in the middle of the summer at noon and count how long it is before someone in "authority" shows up to tell you that you can't fish. I assume that it happens in Stone Harbor and other shore beaches. Some have designated areas but that is a joke as well. Fish where we tell you not where the fish are. It's all about the dollars and you are correct, we just don't meet the criteria. So all we can do is leverage our power. Pick out a politician and focus on him/her. But I have been saying this for years. Send a message. You might be surprised. Those of you in the north be careful with Pallone. He is only your friend when he thinks he can get your vote. Or that your vote is harmless. His wife is a director with the EPA and he will vote whatever way she wants and then he will flat out deny why he did so.
 
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