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Well, I really wanted to get to the bottom of all of these conflicting rumors regarding the possible discontinuation of Loran.

I first called the main headquarters of the Coast Guard in New York City. They in turn told me in order to get the absolutely best information I should call Washington DC and the main commander in charge who is Lieutenant Commander Bob Manning.
I did speak to him, and no doubt- Loran is being discontinued on February 8th 2010 at 1500 hrs. Eastern Standard Time-that is the end. He told me it has been an on-again off-again debate, but this time it is final.
Bob Manning and I had a long conversation about the need of a duplicate form of global positioning besides GPS-and while he totally agreed, he said this order to close the Loran network came directly from the United States Congress.
He further said there were many objections to it being discontinued, but there is no more debate-and this is it. He also told me if anyone has any Loran numbers that are important, they better find those positions with the Loran now and get the GPS coordinates before February 8th.
I asked him about Phantom Loran working as an alternative and he said while it is an approximation, it is not dead-on, and for wreck fishing or exact location you might not find what you are looking for.

I also called Northstar corporate headquarters about Phantom Loran and got a top technician-and he also said sometimes Phantom Loran numbers are close, and sometimes they can be off one quarter of a mile or more, depending upon the GPS being used, and the accuracy of the original numbers. He did say those numbers usually are "consistently off" with most GPS units-and that if you find out in which direction it is off in the Phantom Loran unit you are using-you can make a note of it and it will help you in locations going from Phantom Loran to actual GPS with all locations.

Hard to believe but it is the end of an era.
Does anyone want to buy my Microligic 8000?- I have two of them. Not counting my three Northstar 800s. I guess I am an official old-timer now- I never want to forget 100 Square. How I miss hearing John Demeno, the real deal old-timer rattling off old Loran numbers from the 1950s of Canyon spots to catch tilefish.

Welcome to 2010!

My address has now gone from
26790.6
43785.5
To
40 38 660 N
073 30 979 W

I don't know, possibly I'm getting old- Who can we get to change this?
Where are Elvis Presley and the Everly Brothers when you need them???
Excuse me now, but I have to change my eight track tape deck and plug in my lava lamp.
And as Bob Dylan said………… The Times They Are a Changin'

The truth is we must learn to change with the times-and as Bob Dylan also said,
stay....... "Forever Young"

Mike - DESIRE
 

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Mike, thanks for the report. I think we all knew that Loran was on it's way out but hoped that, by some miracle, it wouldn't happen. As you said, "The times are a changin'". Time to move on. I have some striper in the freezer, maybe I'll try to cook it in the microwave.
 

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Mike,

Nice post and kudos on the legwork done to provide this valuable info to everyone here on The Barn. While I no longer use Loran myself, I can remember back to the day I bought my first positioning device, a Sitex XJ1.

Our Congress is in the habit of spoiling quite a few good old memories lately:(.
 

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750 square

run to the _ _ _ line

All gone

I got pretty good at navigating with the loran head w to increase the 27 line,n to increase the 42 line.

Bought my first sitex-1200 I believe when went mackeral fishing towards the 2FB area-got fogged in so headed back in so I thought towards TI watching the paper chartplotter as depth decreased till I heard breakers. Then heard hammers and cars-thinking wtf. Wait out the Pea soup and saw we were off the nuns beach in Stone harbor. Said thats enough and bought it the next day
 

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Nice post and thanks for reporting your research.For the past 4 years I have always run one of my GPS's in a Loran mode and thus when I am on a spot I take the LAT/LONGS from the chart plotter and the TD's that are displayed on my other GPS.I went to spots in the last four years that I had only TD's for and recorded those in my Chartplotter.

The process to convert is an algorithm that is written in the software of the GPS unit to either run or turn your position into TD's using the inputs from the GPS Satellites. Thus the intergity of the receiving signal along with the algorithm written for your GPS by the manufacture are the two factors that control the accurancy of TD's to LAT/LONGS.

By recording both the TD and The Lat/Long at the same time ,I can relay on the GPS that was set in the Loran modeif I want to go to a spot that had only TD's. Now that LORAN is gone,what I did was really a waste of time since the use of TD's is now put back to age of spearheads made out of flint.
 

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Shinyo

Who are you kidding Doug? By now I'm sure you could hit all of those bay locations in your sleep, let alone without Loran TDs:p.

How have you been pal?

Steve
 

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Who are you kidding Doug? By now I'm sure you could hit all of those bay locations in your sleep, let alone without Loran TDs:p.

How have you been pal?

Steve
See that you are still in Cape May.I am fine.What kind of rig are you running now.?

You are right.I put the Chartplotter and GPS on but most of the time I am driving using Dead Reckoning.;););)
 

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Hey Doug,

Things are going well, considering that I'm getting old and fat and I can't go fishing this weekend....

I've been running a 34 Pursuit Express (Solitaire), still out of Cape May. She's the older Tiara-built diesel inboard that seems to get the job done just fine. Her bottom is green like the old Shinyo's and whenever I come home covered in green bottom dust I think of you way back during my time at BW. My wife still knows you as "the green man":D.

What are you running these days? Are you still up in the Maurice?

No matter how much fishing I've done since those days, I've never seemed to get quite as excited over this sport as I was during my early years up that gnat and greenhead infested river. I had a good time with Ronny, Big Ray, you and Ernie. I haven't even fished with Ronny since about '92. I see him only during family gatherings now.

Steve
 

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I should have sold my furuno mark ll, last year a guy offered me 400 with the coupler, oh well! Really never thought it would happen after years of "threats" "He" should have kept the loran , and cut back somewhere else like foodstamps and free everything to "those people" who chose not to be a productive member of society.
 

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Northstar 800x for sale

I have a brand new never installed Northstar 800x I was saving for my next boat-never thought it would happen but I guess it makes sense-Govt. needed the loran money to bail out the banks so the banks could give their employees a nice big bonus:nuts::nuts::mad: Mariners do not need to find their way when gps quits
 

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Anyone with Raymarine C, E, A, G, or the new wide series. can actually go into the menu and add corrections to the TDs which allows you to be very exact with Loran coordinates. I have been doing this for years and it is pretty much spot on. I do not have to depend on Loran signals since my GPS will display the corrected position based on the L/L position it gets from the GPS satellites.. Check to see if the unit that you use will allow you to do this and you are in good shape. The "phantom" loran is off , in my area by 1/4 mile on 1 line and 1/10 mile on the other. Knowing this allows me to make the TDs and L/L match up very well. Check out your units. You may be OK as well.
 

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A Sad day for America.

Obama’s LORAN Problem
| 6/24/09 | gps333

Posted on Wednesday, June 24, 2009 11:17:23 AM by pabianice

President Obama has a numbers problem. More precisely, he has shown an unwillingness to acknowledge facts when they conflict with his clear intention of turning the United States into 1980s France. We all know how that turned out.
Let’s take one good example. Obama wants to shut-down LORAN. LORAN – LOng RAnge Navigation – was developed after World War II, based upon a simpler system GEE invented by the British. Without boring the reader, let me say simply that it is a robust, world-wide, proven system of ground stations, run by the US Coast Guard, that give vehicles equipped with LORAN receivers a fix – a known position at a certain time, which is critical to navigation. A full explanation is here. A sample of a LORAN chart – this one for waters off New York – is here. As a retired Naval Flight Officer I used LORAN for my entire career in guiding P-3 aircraft around the world.
Obama wants to shut-down this vital system to save .0002% of the national budget through 2015. I kid you not.
The alleged reason to shut-down LORAN is the advent of GPS – the Global Positioning System most people know through their in-car navigators. GPS receivers are complemented with microcomputers to give the driver, mariner, or flier a moving map of the vehicle’s position, a time to destination calculation, and other handy features. So does LORAN. In fact, many have recommended that LORAN be the primary back-up for GPS to ensure a national navigation system that is nearly fool-proof. You see, GPS has a number of problems. It is based upon a “constellation” of 24 satellites in orbit, vs. LORAN’s system of ground stations. As we have seen on TV, repairing a satellite in orbit is a bit of a project. GPS uses low-power microwave signals, which are not receivable in bad weather. LORAN uses low frequency signals at high power which blast through almost any interference. A 2007 report from the government of the United Kingdom concluded that electronic navigation based on GPS or the European Galileo system is unlikely to be robust or reliable enough to withstand intentional jamming or unintentional interference. It recommends developing eLoran (enhanced LORAN, http://satellitenavigation.wordpress.com/eloran-resources/) as an “insurance policy against the potentially massive impacts of a terrorist or criminal jamming attack." The accuracy of eLORAN has been shown to equal that of GPS – both give a fix to within 30 feet. Per the NTSB’s 2006 report, just in the U.S., there are 12.7 million pleasure and commercial boats, another 286 passenger ocean-liners, 224,352 general aviation aircraft, and 8,225 air carrier airplanes. If just one in four are using LORAN, and, as Obama claims, LORAN is costing the government $ 38 million a year, the cost of providing fixing information per vehicle is less than a penny a day. Not a bad deal.
Yet, Obama wants to end LORAN, despite the facts that the nation’s sea and air fleets depend upon it, that it is far more reliable than GPS, and that the savings are meaningless in the face of the benefits to be lost. Congress, to its credit, is moving to save LORAN despite the White House’s blind intentions. The short truth is that the only winners in a LORAN shut-down would be manufacturers of GPS units. Losers would number in the millions of people deprived of the system. Ending LORAN would simply be one more counter-productive move by an Administration that is proving it moves on the basis of ideology rather than reality.
 

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Hey Doug,

Things are going well, considering that I'm getting old and fat and I can't go fishing this weekend....

I've been running a 34 Pursuit Express (Solitaire), still out of Cape May. She's the older Tiara-built diesel inboard that seems to get the job done just fine. Her bottom is green like the old Shinyo's and whenever I come home covered in green bottom dust I think of you way back during my time at BW. My wife still knows you as "the green man":D.

What are you running these days? Are you still up in the Maurice?

No matter how much fishing I've done since those days, I've never seemed to get quite as excited over this sport as I was during my early years up that gnat and greenhead infested river. I had a good time with Ronny, Big Ray, you and Ernie. I haven't even fished with Ronny since about '92. I see him only during family gatherings now.

Steve

Still on the Maurice and tied up at Popeye's Marina.Always something happening at that Marina that makes it fun..We did have some good times and alot of laughs.lCannot believe that I will be remembered by the term "Green Man."
 

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Hey Brian,

I forgot the eight under the hardtop. Total is 35 :D!

Steve
 

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Loran...

Yes, it's officially dead. Just hope US fish & Game doesnt take over what they don't already control down there at the Crest. They presently control from the Diamond Beach area to the CG Loran base, no surfers or fisherman are allowed, if they take over the Loran Beach they will close that too to all but bird watchers.
 
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