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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now if the above alphabet soup got your attention I will try to make this clear.

I have been very happy with the work a
the RFA does and have been an avid reporter. We all know one of their biggest fights has been to fight MPA's, (Marine Protected Areas)

I have been watching the discussion concerning the opening of the EEZ to striped bass fishing and though I knew something is definately wrong concerning the closure of this area I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was.

The facts have been stated here dozens of times so to cut right to the chase. The EEZ is closed to striped bass fishing strictly as an ARBITRARY area closed strictly to keep anglers away from the fish.

The stripers are already strictly regulated to recreational fishermen by size and numbers limits as well as seasons.

To Commercial fishermen there are strict quotas, seasons, gear methods and other regulations all relevent to their respective states and in NJ there is a mandate by the government that the Striped Bass is a Game fish and no sale or commercial possession is allowed anywhere in the state. That would eliminate any possibility of any commercial fisherman landing stripers in any NJ port or even transporting thru state waters.

Now not accepting any arguments which include any referance to bad enforcement, which oviously is happening now I would like to ask the following question:

How is closing the EEZ to stripers any different than any other area closure?

If we accept that will we have to accept closure of the Hot Dog for tuna, any artificial reef area for bottom fish, Delaware Bay for weekfish when fishing is permitted everywhere else?

Actually I feel anyone who fishes fron Barnegat inlet north to New England should be eliminated from this argument since the costal depth keeps a majority of the stripers inside state waters in this area.

Costal areas from Southern New Jersey South are extremely affected by this closure as at the point of the migration that the striped bass pass us unless very favorable conditions keep bait in very shallow water, the vast majority of the fish are far outside the EEZ line.

As a retailer of fishing bait and tackle as well as running charters this closure has a tremendous affect on my buisness. With huge numbers of legal fishermen waiting for a errant school to come in over the line while a large number of scofflaws fish at will.

If the EEZ is open there will be a great market for appropriate tackle for fishing the open water areas. Boat manufactures will see a definate bump as more anglers upgrade for an easier ride to the fish. And even the back bay fish hunters like myself will have a better chance at the fish since more anglers will be headed offshore.

But one last stab at the original question. How can closure of the EEZ for stripers be considered anything but a coast wide MPA?
 

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quote;

How is closing the EEZ to stripers any different than any other area closure?

If we accept that will we have to accept closure of the Hot Dog for tuna, any artificial reef area for bottom fish, Delaware Bay for weekfish when fishing is permitted everywhere else?


I think I agree. EEZ may have had its' place in the past, but to now accept huge closed areas "just because" sets a terrible precedent, one that may come back to bite us in the arse. A lot of the support for keeping the EEZ closed has to do with fear.
 

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I SEE YOUR POINT DAVE - BUT ITS AN AREA CLOSED TO ONE FISH - NOT ALL FISH LIKE AN MPA SO.........

SECONDLY THE POINT REMOVE BARNEGAT ANGLERS NORTH - THIS IS A MIGRATORY FISH THOSE ANGLERS SHOULD BE CONCERNED AND ARE IM SURE I AM ONE

TWINS - WHAT IS THE ROOT OF "THEIR" FEAR??? COLLAPSE OF STOCK AGAIN - HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF - SHOULD THEY NOT BE CONCERNED?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yes, if the EEZ is open to fishing for stripers there is the slight possibility that a commercial fisherman could legally catch stripers past 3 miles.

HOWEVER every state commercial striper fishing is regulated by strict quotas, fishing methods, seasons, gear types lisences, tags and other methods of regulating catch, as well as many landing regulations.

All current quotas are easily being filled inide state waters so it is very unlikely that commercial fishermen would go into federal waters outside their own state much less use time and fuel to go to federal waters outside other states.

As to New Jersey, if an out of state commercial fishermen was fishing outside state waters he would not be able to enter NJ waters with stripers in possession, much less land and sell them at any New Jersey port.

As to By-Catch of stripers during other fisheries it is already happening and the fish simply go overboard dead. Unless we find a way to outlaw any and all by-kill there won't be a way to change that.
 

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Given the fact that large spawners are being taking out of the Delaware every spring on their way up to spawn ,couple that with opening of the EEZ and allowing more large fish to be capture, we will see a dramtic drop in Striped bass population . WHEN that happens all the tackle shops and charter guys will be bitching that they have no buisness in Nov-Dec due to no stripers around.
Happen once and will happen again
 

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Dave, I certainly understand your sentiments - very well said and much merit. Twin D's said it right. Fear is what keeps anglers from wanting to open the EEZ to striper fishing. I have to admit, fear is what makes me want to keep it closed, although the logical side of my brain tells me I should be arguing in favor of opening it.

When it comes to keeping our striper stocks at a high level of abundance, I don't worry at all about overfishing along most of the coast during most of the year. I think the most significant risk of overfishing involves specific areas during specific seasons. When large portions of our coastal stock are crammed into certain areas, thats when real damage can be done.

One of these "high risk situations" is the overwintering population in the EEZ off of the Carolinas. I want that body of fish protected as much as possible, and opening the EEZ is a pretty scary possibility given the reputation (deserved or otherwise) of both recreational and commercial fishermen in that area for finding ways to "fly under the radar" of enforcement.

I'm simply too scared, like many other anglers, of what might happen if we open the EEZ.
 

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An MPA is closed to any and all fishing, usually with little to no science behind it.

Just a little different then not allowing bass fishing in the EEZ to give them at least some protection.

Why exactly do we need to open it? Is there anyone who can't catch their limit inside 3 miles?

Why fix what ain't broken?
 

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They already whine about that
That's NJ's decision, not the feds.

Would opening open the EEZ and going back to 1 fish help the charter boats? Comm landings would stay as they are, it might make it a little easier to catch it though. Rec landings though would likely go up. Since were already fishing at the max, we'd be facing cutbacks.

Careful what you wish for.
 

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Considering the fact that catching a few fish to eat is NO PROBLEM inside the EEZ. There seems no point to opening. It will definitely make the regs that much harder to enforce. Let's face it, if you want to C&R fish you can go bluefishing all day long till your arms fall off, so what's the point of allowing thosee fish to be killed? It's like gun control, the outlaws will still be there. The guy who keeps over his limit is keeping fish from the EEZ now, so why allow the legal kill of tons and tons when they can easily be had within the three mile limit. Let those who swim offshore go on their way unmolested. We have plenty of success picking off the edge for fish to be killed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
While this is still under control lets look at where we stand.

Bucktail Willie says we will kill too many spawers, Opinion ? The feds are using best available science and say it is viable.

I don't always agree with the science, but that is what the management of all fish is about.

Bob ECT says that a MPA is closed to all species with no science, The fed science says OK, I only care about 1 species, so I can't fish there. As I noted above that could be used as a precident for the possibility of specific location closures on migrating species.

I think NJAngler Bill states everyones true feeling, FEAR , But FEAR is the most dangerous. What is it that the Anti-Forces use to impose their will, FEAR. If we can justify closing 99.9% of the ocean to striper fishing strictly on FEAR then the spin doctors of the preservationists will get the ear of politicos and bend it with stories that will make this closure look like free pickings.

I already said that enforcement issues don't count DGreenMachine admitted that there are already enforcement problems, so with openings they will change but never go away. How to address that is for another day.

Then I do believe there is the segment that considers this their private fishing ground. Vulgar Guy tried to address this with sarcasm in the EEZ thread and was ignored, but I believe he brings up a valid point.

Lets keep the ideas flowing.
 

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Here's what I saw: We were catching 40 pound stripers in the Cape May rips in the early seventies. Surf fishing in LBI was good and The LBI Striper tournament was a huge fall event.The commercials rounded up all the big breaders in North Carolina and other southern states and in the Eighties we couldn"t find a Striped Bass.They changed the name of the "LBI Striper Tournament" to the "LBI surf fishing tournament" because no one caught a qualifing Bass.The Jersey shores were deserted in the spring and fall
They closed the EEZ and the fishery returned to what it is today....a chance for everybody to catch a large fish and a $6 billion plus industry!!
The EEZ must stay closed until we can get "GAMEFISH" status for the Striped Bass.
As large a group as the Saltwater angler is in the Northeast and Mid Atlantic area, don't we desearve one....just one gamefish?
 

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Dave,

Personally, I'm not against the use of Marine Protected Areas (MPA) as a conservation tool - we already have them in terms of the EEZ and the catch and release fishery during the spring spawn on the Delaware, even closing the back bays to striper action during the winter layover.

What I am against - and what I believe RFA is fighting against, along with others - is the creation of any MPA or the closure of public access without the utilization of sound, available science.

Science and economic studies have proven that the EEZ closure to striped bass harvest, and sound conservation methods over the past 25 years, has resulted in an outstanding fishery. The economic benefits of this fishery (see Southwick) are too great to tinker with.

The striped bass comeback is a success story that the Fed should embrace. One of very few success stories they can brag about. Commercial fishermen - where applicable - still fill their lineside quota. Recreational anglers still take their limits on a daily basis along the inshore waters.

Again, where's the need to tinker with success, when this success is soundly supported by available science and valid economic studies?

Keeping the EEZ closed to striper fishing is good for the overall economy of New Jersey - from motels and restaurants to recreational ports of call and tackle shops.
 

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Dave, I believe that the continued closure of the EEZ to Striper fishing is good. It has proven that a fishery that was all but gone could survive and multiply.

The fear of the hotdog being closed to tuna fishing is a valid one. However, if Tuna went the way of the striper, why wouldn't you want it closed ? I can't believe you would want Tuna stocks depleted as happened to the striper.

In my opinion, the closure doesn't give anyone a leg up. We catch our limit now. To what purpose does it serve that it be opened?
 

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Originally posted by HutchJr.:
Keeping the EEZ closed to striper fishing is good for the overall economy of New Jersey - from motels and restaurants to recreational ports of call and tackle shops.
Let's make a few substitutions and see how this shoe fits (for future purposes)

Keeping the near-shore and back-bay waters closed to outboard motors and foot traffic is good for the overall economy of New Jersey - from motels and restaurants to binocular shops and bird watching tours.

How's that sound? :D
 

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>> How's that sound?

I guess it sounds good in theory, until you compare the monies generated from birdwatching in New Jersey to that of recreational fishing. Then it's fairly nonsensical.

Recreational fishing is a multi-million dollar - with boating and engines added, it's easily billion dollar - economic engine in New Jersey. Simply no comparison, but thanks for playing along.
 
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